502 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

I still think that Lamar and whatever you can build around him with 80% of the remaining cap is a more likely path to the type of roster that it takes to compete for championships than 100% of the cap available, a couple extra #1 picks, and no plan at QB (which likely boils down to either trading most of those picks you get for Lamar to move up and draft a top-5 QB with all the risk that entails or sign/trade for someone like Cousins or Garopolo or similar for 75% or so of what you'd have needed to pay Lamar).

None of the options are great. Its either a big gamble on Lamar with a lesser roster around him or a big gamble on DeCosta finding the next QB. I don't think its fair to say that choosing one of those options means you are happy for mediocrity and the other means you are seeking glory. The objectives are the same for both paths forward.

Except that they’ve won with one path and haven’t with the other (and it isn’t looking good moving forward either). You’re talking in hypotheticals, and I’m looking at what has actually happened and what is happening now.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Except that they’ve won with one path and haven’t with the other (and it isn’t looking good moving forward either). You’re talking in hypotheticals, and I’m looking at what has actually happened and what is happening now.

How many examples around the league over whatever timeframe you want do you need where the draftee doesnt work out. It will be a draftee but if it isnt, if it is a Jimmy G you still are paying significant money and if not a FA using draft capital to acquire the talent.

[bmore_ken]

Lamar wasn't good or bad, he did what was asked of him. If this game means a return to the 2018-2020 run-first offense then I am fine with this overcorrection.

Same here

[bmore_ken]

Except that they’ve won with one path and haven’t with the other (and it isn’t looking good moving forward either). You’re talking in hypotheticals, and I’m looking at what has actually happened and what is happening now.

So your plan is to let Lamar walk, sign a Trent Dilfer type, and draft three HOF defenders(instrumental in both titles)? Good luck with that. 

[jamesdean]

Lamar wasn't good or bad, he did what was asked of him. If this game means a return to the 2018-2020 run-first offense then I am fine with this overcorrection.

I hope Hill is the exception to the Harbaugh rule of "you fumble, you're gone" punishment.  He's run very well this year and they're going to need someone other than Edwards to keep a balanced running attack.  Not convinced Drake is any answer. 

[Mackus]

Except that they’ve won with one path and haven’t with the other (and it isn’t looking good moving forward either). You’re talking in hypotheticals, and I’m looking at what has actually happened and what is happening now.

 

Its all hypotheticals.  The 2000 and 2012 championships don't really have anything to do with whenever our next one comes.

 

They've built good teams in the past around bad QBs.  Probable that they can do it again and maybe one of those teams wins it all.  Its not impossible.  Maybe they can find a good QB for cheap for 4 years while simultaneously building a good team around that guy.  That's the ideal path (and that's why doing nothing with Lamar's rookie contract will forever be a huge missed opportunity).  But I still think that building a roster with what's leftover after paying him is an easier route than needing to find a cheap QB and having a small window to pay him nothing or going with a lesser but still expensive option.  I think they can build a roster around Lamar that will have a stronger window over the next 3-5 years than they would have by effectively starting over with a few extra high draft picks.

 

I have more confidence in the Ravens pulling off either path than I would most teams.  They are well-run and will have as good of a chance at success as is possible.  But I still think that having a top-level QB is worth the squeeze and the better of the two choices for reasons previously stated.  If my confidence in Lamar falls further (its down a bit but still high) or if the price tag escalates even further (it continues to go up but so does the cap), eventually I'd decide to go the other way.  But I'm not there yet nor particularly close to an inflection point.

[You Play to Win the Game]

They have missed that opportunity while Lamar is cheap - but you think they can do it when he’s taking up 20% of the cap? Just doesn’t make sense. But we’ve been over this enough, it is what it is. I’m sick of the damn mediocrity, that’s all it comes down to for me. I love Lamar, I’d love nothing more than to win with Lamar. I’ve lost pretty much all faith at this point though.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Its all hypotheticals. The 2000 and 2012 championships don't really have anything to do with whenever our next one comes.

They've built good teams in the past around bad QBs. Probable that they can do it again and maybe one of those teams wins it all. Its not impossible. Maybe they can find a good QB for cheap for 4 years while simultaneously building a good team around that guy. That's the ideal path (and that's why doing nothing with Lamar's rookie contract will forever be a huge missed opportunity). But I still think that building a roster with what's leftover after paying him is an easier route than needing to find a cheap QB and having a small window to pay him nothing or going with a lesser but still expensive option. I think they can build a roster around Lamar that will have a stronger window over the next 3-5 years than they would have by effectively starting over with a few extra high draft picks.

I have more confidence in the Ravens pulling off either path than I would most teams. They are well-run and will have as good of a chance at success as is possible. But I still think that having a top-level QB is worth the squeeze and the better of the two choices for reasons previously stated. If my confidence in Lamar falls further (its down a bit but still high) or if the price tag escalates even further, eventually I'd decide to go the other way. But I'm not there yet nor particularly close to an inflection point.

This is well said. The last part specifically. Im not married to Lamar at all costs.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

They have missed that opportunity while Lamar is cheap - but you think they can do it when he’s taking up 20% of the cap? Just doesn’t make sense. But we’ve been over this enough, it is what it is. I’m sick of the damn mediocrity, that’s all it comes down to for me. I love Lamar, I’d love nothing more than to win with Lamar. I’ve lost pretty much all faith at this point though.

The "mediocrity" isnt on Lamar and IMO they arent a mediocre team anyway. They are currently one of the 5-8 best teams in the league.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Not buying that either (The not being married to Lamar). There’s always a defense for the mediocrity.

Lamar just doesn’t do well with the pressure. A mega contract with less talent around him is going to help that how?

[Mackus]

They have missed that opportunity while Lamar is cheap - but you think they can do it when he’s taking up 20% of the cap? Just doesn’t make sense.

 

Yes.  Why can't they?

 

Obviously they'll need to do better at drafting and signing guys, coaching, and stay healthier than they have to this point.  But that has to happen under any plan.  They cannot win if they don't build the roster well and stay relatively healthy.  That has to happen whether its Lamar for $50M, Garopolo for $35M, a 1st round mediocrity like Daniel Jones or a stud draftee like Burrow.  Its a prerequisite for success.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Not buying that either (The not being married to Lamar). There’s always a defense for the mediocrity.

Lamar just doesn’t do well with the pressure. A mega contract with less talent around him is going to help that how?

Easy, weak, incorrect narrative

[mdrunning]

Last week the Ravens lost due in no small part to an interception off an ill-advised throw. This week, they kept the ball on the ground and almost suffered the same fate when they fumbled late in the game.

 

The problem for the Ravens is that there's no third alternative.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Easy, weak, incorrect narrative

Until he wins more than one playoff game (ever, really) in a playoff run, I’m sticking to my factually correct but incorrect narrative.

And rejecting your premise in the previous post, Mackus. This is the NFL. The Ravens aren’t any more banged up than any other team.

[Mackus]

And rejecting your premise in the previous post, Mackus. This is the NFL. The Ravens aren’t any more banged up than any other team.

 

This was not my premise.

 

I'm saying that the underlying things still need to go right for the team to be good.  That's true whether we sign Lamar or trade him and start over.  Gotta draft well, gotta make good signings, gotta coach well, gotta avoid injury catasrophes.  More margin for error in those areas if you aren't dedicating 20% of the cap to Lamar but of course that option also adds in one other huge area of needing to find a QB so you gotta get that right.

[BSLMikeFast]

Good, gritty win!

 

Pass rush looked good. Only two busted coverages (I know, not good, but an improvement). Gus!! Ronnie!!

 

A lot to work on, but a lot to like. (someone put that on a t-shirt lol)

[Ravens2006]

Harbaugh and his coordinators pull the team towards mediocrity on game day.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I thought McDonald did a good job of adjusting after the first series. He started bringing more pressure  and it was either getting to Brissett or effecting him. I thought Roman did a good job of sticking with the gameplan to attack a poor run defense on the ground even though it was a grind. No big chunks. I agreed with the two decisions to go for it on 4th down that Harbaugh made and no not just because they were successful. SO yeah, yesterday wasnt a day to be proclaiming the coaches pulled the team down towards mediocrity. 

[Mackus]

He gives us so many opportunities to talk about it, but how damn good is Justin Tucker?  55 yard FG in the 4th quarter of a contested game.  Ho hum.  Right down the middle.

[NewMarketSean]

I hope Hill is the exception to the Harbaugh rule of "you fumble, you're gone" punishment.  He's run very well this year and they're going to need someone other than Edwards to keep a balanced running attack.  Not convinced Drake is any answer. 

We need Hill because we need bodies. Anything he brings us is a bonus. But he has run well so far this year.