3122 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

That’s fine, wasn’t implying he was awful. But I feel validated in never wanting him to begin with.

BTW, felt obvious all along it was WR with one of the first two picks.

[hallas]

I just think with what they paid Watkins, and AV, maybe they could’ve gotten a more substantial piece for the line. Or a competent TE to go with Andrews given Boyle’s health. It was a misapplication of resources. After trading Brown, the investment needed to go into the line if we were in win now mode. I said exactly what Makoman said last summer when the signing happened, it won’t move the needle. And it didn’t. Not even close.

Villanueva was one of the better FA tackles available outside Trent Williams, and we weren't signing Trent Williams even if we had Watkins' money available to us. Daryl Williams would have been nice but he signed before the FA window.

Also we were likely expecting Stanley to be available and be a Pro Bowler again, and he wasn't.

[Mackus]

Yeah the big miss of the entire offseason was assuming Stanley was going to be healthy enough to play.  Unfortunately, I think they are going to have to make that same assumption again unless the medical team says it's unlikely he'll be available.  It could absolutely unravel the season if he's not able to play decently, but having to put the large amount of resources it would take to add a LT rather than using them in hopes of addressing the many holes on the defensive side of the ball might derail the season before it begins as well.

 

It's very much a scenario of choosing whichever option you hate slightly less and then hoping the big hole left doesn't destroy you.

[cprenegade]

I never liked either of the Watkins or Villenueava signings.  Neither was dependable in different ways.  Sammy Watkins can't play a full season to save his life.  He's always hurt.  Villenueava is durable, but his best days were behind him the year before.  I felt like both signings were like buying a bargain basement mower from Walmart and hoping it could work all summer to keep your lawn cutting service alive.  I would rather spend money on a quality piece that might be around for a couple of years at least instead of spending money on two questionable patchwork pieces that were problems all year long.  

[hallas]

Yeah the big miss of the entire offseason was assuming Stanley was going to be healthy enough to play. Unfortunately, I think they are going to have to make that same assumption again unless the medical team says it's unlikely he'll be available. It could absolutely unravel the season if he's not able to play decently, but having to put the large amount of resources it would take to add a LT rather than using them in hopes of addressing the many holes on the defensive side of the ball might derail the season before it begins as well.

It's very much a scenario of choosing whichever option you hate slightly less and then hoping the big hole left doesn't destroy you.

I think that since Mekari can play guard or tackle, you draft a RT that can play either side, and shift him around depending on Stanley's availability. I'm comfortable with the other guard position and center, between Bozeman and Zeitler. We still have Tyre Philips and Cleveland for backups if Mekari has to go to RT.

That should leave you with enough draft capital to get 3 or 4 impact players to rebuild our defense.

[Mackus]

I would rather spend money on a quality piece that might be around for a couple of years at least instead of spending money on two questionable patchwork pieces that were problems all year long.  

 

Agree, I think we all would.  Problem is that doesn't really exist and if it does is very hard to find.  They put less than $10M in cap space into those two guys (plus a few more million in dead money in 2022).  Who are you getting for WR and/or RT as a FA that is much more likely to succeed than these guys were for only $10-13M?  And then even if you find and land that guy, you still have the other hole that you can only fill with a cheap, near-minimum option.

 

It's a little easier to identify and reflect on the WRs.  Nelson Agholor signed for 2/$22M with a $6M year 1 hit.  That would've been an option.  He had slightly better numbers than Watkins in slightly more time.  JuJu signed for 1/$8M (basically, set up so most of the cap hit is in 2022).  He had 130 yards in 5 games before getting hurt.  Corey Davis I really wanted, but he took more money, 3/$37.5M.  He was ok, 500 yards in 9 games but also got hurt.

 

The only other RT who signed for big-ish money were Matt Feiler (3/$21M) and Kendall Lamm (2/$6.8M).  I have no idea how good either guys is.

[hallas]

Agree, I think we all would. Problem is that doesn't really exist and if it does is very hard to find. They put less than $10M in cap space into those two guys (plus a few more million in dead money in 2022). Who are you getting for WR and/or RT as a FA that is much more likely to succeed than these guys were for only $10-13M? And then even if you find and land that guy, you still have the other hole that you can only fill with a cheap, near-minimum option.

It's a little easier to identify and reflect on the WRs. Nelson Agholor signed for 2/$22M with a $6M year 1 hit. That would've been an option. He had slightly better numbers than Watkins in slightly more time. JuJu signed for 1/$8M (basically, set up so most of the cap hit is in 2022). He had 130 yards in 5 games before getting hurt. Corey Davis I really wanted, but he took more money, 3/$37.5M. He was ok, 500 yards in 9 games but also got hurt.

The only other RT who signed for big-ish money were Matt Feiler (3/$21M) and Kendall Lamm (2/$6.8M). I have no idea how good either guys is.

Matt Feiler would have been available for more or less the same cap hit as Villanueva but more years and more guaranteed money. He graded out at 75 on PFF. He's much younger, and he can also shift to guard.

[Biggsy]

Seeing a lot of speculation that the Ravens may be done with Elliott. If so, I'm kind of curious what direction they go. Internally Stephens really got better as the year went on. He held a 75ish PFF grade through the last 5 or 6 weeks as a starter. But I'm not sure he's the full time answer.

[Mackus]

I have no idea who they might go for, but a guy who is strong in coverage would be my priority over a more balanced or certainly a heavy-hitting guy with weaker cover skills.

 

Like everywhere else, the cap space shell game is going to be a factor as well.  Only so many dollars to go around.  I think free safety is a position that they could try to fill mostly internally or with some cheap FA signings while hoping that a guy they like long term falls to them in the 1st or 2nd round.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Like Elliott but pretty much have to let him go since youre committed to Clark for another year

[Mackus]

Plus comp picks.

 

Bozeman, Averett, Elliott, and Ricard should all get enough to factor into comp pick math.  Houston could as well if he signs before the draft.  The cutoff was around $2.5M APY last year, so would expect guys to need to sign for that much to really count.

 

Bozeman and Averett might sneak into 4th round territory, but mostly I think we're looking at 5th and 6th round picks for 2023.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ravens should attempt to bring Houston back. Shouldnt be too expensive. He was PFFs 3rd highest graded Raven this year behind Andrews and Campbell.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Plus comp picks.

Bozeman, Averett, Elliott, and Ricard should all get enough to factor into comp pick math. Houston could as well if he signs before the draft. The cutoff was around $2.5M APY last year, so would expect guys to need to sign for that much to really count.

Bozeman and Averett might sneak into 4th round territory, but mostly I think we're looking at 5th and 6th round picks for 2023.

Campbell has to factor i to the comp too. Again, like Houston, I am interested in a reunion.

[Biggsy]

Like Elliott but pretty much have to let him go since youre committed to Clark for another year

Really wish it was the other way around. I like Elliott a lot more than Clark. He is just a better all around player. But Clark is reliable, and Elliott has proven you can't rely on him to stay healthy.

I really could see FS being a spot they try and go cheap on, and let Stephens start there next season. He was actually pretty good over the last quarter of the season. And he has a good coverage background, being a former CB.

[makoman]

Really wish it was the other way around. I like Elliott a lot more than Clark. He is just a better all around player. But Clark is reliable, and Elliott has proven you can't rely on him to stay healthy.

I really could see FS being a spot they try and go cheap on, and let Stephens start there next season. He was actually pretty good over the last quarter of the season. And he has a good coverage background, being a former CB.

Stephens seemed to play well enough by the end of the year that I’m ok with that, unless you can get Hamilton or someone who you view as a big difference maker (Mathieu?). There are enough holes to fill that you’re going to have to fill some internally.

[hallas]

Really wish it was the other way around. I like Elliott a lot more than Clark. He is just a better all around player. But Clark is reliable, and Elliott has proven you can't rely on him to stay healthy.

I really could see FS being a spot they try and go cheap on, and let Stephens start there next season. He was actually pretty good over the last quarter of the season. And he has a good coverage background, being a former CB.

This year's draft is the deepest for safeties in like 5+ years, with multiple safeties currently with first round grades. Given the extent of our need at safety I am almost certain that we are planning on fixing this in the draft.

I swear I'm the only person on the board that didn't like Elliott that much. I think I'd be okay with him if we didn't have Clark on the other side. But they're both strong safeties IMO.

[jamesdean]

This year's draft is the deepest for safeties in like 5+ years, with multiple safeties currently with first round grades. Given the extent of our need at safety I am almost certain that we are planning on fixing this in the draft.
I swear I'm the only person on the board that didn't like Elliott that much. I think I'd be okay with him if we didn't have Clark on the other side. But they're both strong safeties IMO.

They desperately need to start finding players on defense that create turnovers. All they have is Peters and that's not enough. The dearth of interceptions and fumble recoveries was a major problem all year.

[BSLMikeFast]

Does this make things feel any better for you, Ravens Flock?

[BSLChrisStoner]

I enjoyed watching them go out... but, no not really. 

 

They weren't ever going to win multiple games in the playoffs.  

Honestly, I don't particularly get more worked up for Pittsburgh than Cleveland or Cincinnati.  

I care about the head-to-head games because they are a divisional foe, and I respect the history of the rivalry... but beyond that, meh. 

For the most part I only care about the Ravens and what they do / what they control; and don't care so much about their opponent. 

[Mike in STL]

Does this make things feel any better for you, Ravens Flock?

It was pretty obvious the Steelers were going to get waxed. If the Chargers played that game, Herbert gives them a chance to out gun Mahomes. If the Ravens were in that spot and Lamar was 100%, well, he already out gunned them once. You have a chance. If it was Huntley again it would have been less of a chance than the Steelers had. Maybe even a shutout. 

 

Happy to see the Patriots, Steelers and Cowboys knocked out this weekend.

 

Doesn't make me feel better as a Ravens fan. But I always enjoy seeing teams I hate lose. Was sweet to see the Steelers come up short on Ben's last drive. You know they were trying to get him a meaningless TD to go out on.