3122 replies to this topic

[cprenegade]

I guess we'll just ignore the signing of Pierce. And bringing our best rated defensive player in Campbell back ?

Macdonald also seems to play a lot of 4-2 nickel and 3-4 over alignments. He relied heavily on his edge rushers lining up and beating the guy in front of him to the QB. I'd expect a lot of pass rush attempts from Oweh and Bowser this season. Campbell can still generate pressure up the middle. Pierce and Madubuike are above average 3-4 lineman at worst.

Not really sure where the doom and gloom about the line is coming from.

 

Not ignoring any of it, just not all that impressed.  Michael PIerce has a total of 6 1/2 sacks in a 5 year career.  He was with the Ravens for 4 years and they didn't think enough of him to bring him back, now they have.  Campbell is a great guy, but in terms of football years, he is old.  He had 1 1/2 sacks last year and is 4 years removed from double digit sacks.  

 

I fully expect Oweh to make improvement in his second year.  But that's speculation.  And if they bring back Justin Houston, that's just more age on a unit that needs to get younger.  

 

This feels like last years discussion on the Oline.  A lot of people were absolutely convinced that the line had to be better than the year before.  I was not convinced.  I was not sold that Stanley would be ready to go, (a feeling I still have) and I pretty much was convinced that Villenueava was way past his prime and was a big mistake.  

 

I feel that way about the Dline right now.  I see nobody that would scare me as an OC if I were preparing for the Ravens and dropping my QB back to throw.  The AFC is loaded with good QBs.  If you can't get pressure on them, with today's rules good QBs are going to find their spots.  The Ravens finished 23rd in the league last year with 34 sacks.  That's about 2 per game.  With an AFC that has Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Wilson, Herbert and others, more pressure is needed from the Dline and I don't think their current cast can do that well enough.

 

It's just my opinion.  Can I be wrong.  Sure can.  Been wrong a lot of times before.  But that is my opinion.  As of right now, I don't think the Raven's defensive line is all that good.  And it certainly is not an upgrade from last year, when it wasn't all that good then as well.  Seems like the road to a championship these days is paved by a team that can get after the QB big time, and have a QB that can make big time throws in the clutch.  I have a hard time seeing the Raven's defensive line as comprised right now doing the first part of that.  

[makoman]

The AFC final 4 teams last year had 43, 42, 42, and 31 sacks.

 

23rd in the league sounds bad, but 34 isn't all that far from where those good teams were, another 8 or so sacks or a half sack per game. The Ravens had 37 sacks in 2019 and 39 in 2020. Still not so great, but a little more comparable to those numbers and pressure was not why they lost in the playoffs. No one could really complain if they had 39 sacks looking at those top 4 numbers.

 

I'm not trying to say pass rush is not important, it's incredibly important. That's why they used a 1st rounder last year and got a 1st round talent in the 2nd this year. 

 

Oweh is exciting. He was so raw but you can see the talent. He was already commanding double teams last year. Maybe he doesn't make a jump, but it's plausible he becomes a monster this year.

 

Ojabo is supposedly like Oweh but better at pass rushing and worse at run defense. Hope he gets healthy soon.

 

Bowser looked really good picking his spots as a rusher last year. Hope he gets healthy soon. 

 

Houston seemed like he got decent pressure but just didn't finish for whatever reason. He's old but I'd take him back and think he'd be fine, especially if he can play a little less to keep fresh.

 

The line, it is what it is and yes is concerning in pass rush. Jones is supposed to be decent at that though. Madubuike was supposed to break out last year, maybe this is the year. At least Williams will be gone, he was good at what he did but was a zero in pass rush.

 

There is also some synergy between pass rush and coverage. When you're using your 8th and 9th string corners you probably aren't getting many coverage sacks. I don't have any advanced stats but I've read up to a quarter of sacks could be considered coverage sacks. Going from terrible secondary to excellent secondary has to help the raw number of sacks.

 

There's a scheme question too. Why did guys like Judon, Ngakoue, Z Smith do far better elsewhere? Wink's defenses were often top 5 in points/yards but never top 10 in sacks. Was that players or coaching? Did Macdonald have anything at all to do with Hutchinson's and Ojabo's production? All that's an unknown, we'll see.

 

Again, pass rush is important no doubt. They aren't going to approach the league leaders but I don't think they are all that far from where they need to be to be a top team in the AFC. I'm an optimist though (or maybe a homer). 

[bmore_ken]

Not ignoring any of it, just not all that impressed.  Michael PIerce has a total of 6 1/2 sacks in a 5 year career.  He was with the Ravens for 4 years and they didn't think enough of him to bring him back, now they have.  Campbell is a great guy, but in terms of football years, he is old.  He had 1 1/2 sacks last year and is 4 years removed from double digit sacks.  

 

I fully expect Oweh to make improvement in his second year.  But that's speculation.  And if they bring back Justin Houston, that's just more age on a unit that needs to get younger.  

 

This feels like last years discussion on the Oline.  A lot of people were absolutely convinced that the line had to be better than the year before.  I was not convinced.  I was not sold that Stanley would be ready to go, (a feeling I still have) and I pretty much was convinced that Villenueava was way past his prime and was a big mistake.  

 

I feel that way about the Dline right now.  I see nobody that would scare me as an OC if I were preparing for the Ravens and dropping my QB back to throw.  The AFC is loaded with good QBs.  If you can't get pressure on them, with today's rules good QBs are going to find their spots.  The Ravens finished 23rd in the league last year with 34 sacks.  That's about 2 per game.  With an AFC that has Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Wilson, Herbert and others, more pressure is needed from the Dline and I don't think their current cast can do that well enough.

 

It's just my opinion.  Can I be wrong.  Sure can.  Been wrong a lot of times before.  But that is my opinion.  As of right now, I don't think the Raven's defensive line is all that good.  And it certainly is not an upgrade from last year, when it wasn't all that good then as well.  Seems like the road to a championship these days is paved by a team that can get after the QB big time, and have a QB that can make big time throws in the clutch.  I have a hard time seeing the Raven's defensive line as comprised right now doing the first part of that.  

The age thing concerns me the most. Players don't get better as they get older unless their name is Brady. What I don't want to see is 4th quarter leads go away because those guys are gassed late in the 4th quarter. I think they have enough to get by this season at D line, but that definitely should be a priority in the next draft

[jamesdean]

Maybe I'm a fool but I'm really excited about Jones potential. I think we got a real steal with him and he's going to significantly impact the DL's production.

[Biggsy]

Not ignoring any of it, just not all that impressed. Michael PIerce has a total of 6 1/2 sacks in a 5 year career. He was with the Ravens for 4 years and they didn't think enough of him to bring him back, now they have. Campbell is a great guy, but in terms of football years, he is old. He had 1 1/2 sacks last year and is 4 years removed from double digit sacks.

I fully expect Oweh to make improvement in his second year. But that's speculation. And if they bring back Justin Houston, that's just more age on a unit that needs to get younger.

This feels like last years discussion on the Oline. A lot of people were absolutely convinced that the line had to be better than the year before. I was not convinced. I was not sold that Stanley would be ready to go, (a feeling I still have) and I pretty much was convinced that Villenueava was way past his prime and was a big mistake.

I feel that way about the Dline right now. I see nobody that would scare me as an OC if I were preparing for the Ravens and dropping my QB back to throw. The AFC is loaded with good QBs. If you can't get pressure on them, with today's rules good QBs are going to find their spots. The Ravens finished 23rd in the league last year with 34 sacks. That's about 2 per game. With an AFC that has Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Wilson, Herbert and others, more pressure is needed from the Dline and I don't think their current cast can do that well enough.

It's just my opinion. Can I be wrong. Sure can. Been wrong a lot of times before. But that is my opinion. As of right now, I don't think the Raven's defensive line is all that good. And it certainly is not an upgrade from last year, when it wasn't all that good then as well. Seems like the road to a championship these days is paved by a team that can get after the QB big time, and have a QB that can make big time throws in the clutch. I have a hard time seeing the Raven's defensive line as comprised right now doing the first part of that.

A lot to unpack in this post. Most of it is pointless, either your willfully ignoring the finer parts of football to downplay Pierce, or you just don't understand the intricacies of each position on a football field. 1, Pierce is a NT. Their is not a NT in football that is asked to generate 5+ sacks. Their job is to eat up blocks and create a wall in the middle against the run. Pierce has done that as good as anyone in his career. The Ravens didn't just let him go. They couldn't afford him. In his first three years, he put up defensive PFF grades of 79.6, 86.9 and 91. With run defense grades of 81.4, 87.9 and 92. All elite numbers. Those 3 years he was the premiere NT in football. Last season he came off of a one year layoff and put up a good PFF grade of 78.5.

Pierce wasn't brought in to rush the passer. He was brought in to replace Williams. So EDC plugged one big hole right there.

Now, where I agree with you, is that we don't have a defensive line that has someone that's really good as a pass rusher. I feel like Madubuike and Campbell can push the pocket and generate pass rush inconsistently. Jones is a wild card, but I don't expect him to immediately be anything special in the pass rush department. Wolfe has never generated much pass rush either. All of our defensive line are true 3-4 defensive lineman.


Where my hope comes in, is with the scheme Macdonald will bring. I saw a lot of passing downs where Wink would have Oweh stunt around to the middle and then just kind of hang out in the trash as a spy. He did that a lot with Judon the 2 years prior as well. Macdonald, at least at Michigan, lined his OLB's out wide, and he sent them upfield after the QB. Nothing special. Just line up and beat the guy across from you. Hutchinson and Ojabo did just that, more often than not.

That's where my hope comes in for Oweh. He's so explosive upfield, if he can consistently just get sent after the QB, I feel like he is a 10+ sack season waiting to happen. I think Bowser could be a wildcard as well. He's sneaky good as a pass rusher.

If Oweh, Bowser, and hopefully later in the season Ojabo, can get upfield and make the QB's step up quicker than they want, hopefully Campbell, Madubuike or Jones can create enough push up the middle to create traffic and get these QB's feeling nervous.

End of the day, this defensive line is not a bad unit. They're all really good at stopping the run and eating blocks for the LBers. The pass rush is going to be on the shoulders of the OLB's off the edge in Macdonalds scheme.

[cprenegade]

A lot to unpack in this post. Most of it is pointless, either your willfully ignoring the finer parts of football to downplay Pierce, or you just don't understand the intricacies of each position on a football field. 1, Pierce is a NT. Their is not a NT in football that is asked to generate 5+ sacks. Their job is to eat up blocks and create a wall in the middle against the run. Pierce has done that as good as anyone in his career. The Ravens didn't just let him go. They couldn't afford him. In his first three years, he put up defensive PFF grades of 79.6, 86.9 and 91. With run defense grades of 81.4, 87.9 and 92. All elite numbers. Those 3 years he was the premiere NT in football. Last season he came off of a one year layoff and put up a good PFF grade of 78.5.

Pierce wasn't brought in to rush the passer. He was brought in to replace Williams. So EDC plugged one big hole right there.

Now, where I agree with you, is that we don't have a defensive line that has someone that's really good as a pass rusher. I feel like Madubuike and Campbell can push the pocket and generate pass rush inconsistently. Jones is a wild card, but I don't expect him to immediately be anything special in the pass rush department. Wolfe has never generated much pass rush either. All of our defensive line are true 3-4 defensive lineman.


Where my hope comes in, is with the scheme Macdonald will bring. I saw a lot of passing downs where Wink would have Oweh stunt around to the middle and then just kind of hang out in the trash as a spy. He did that a lot with Judon the 2 years prior as well. Macdonald, at least at Michigan, lined his OLB's out wide, and he sent them upfield after the QB. Nothing special. Just line up and beat the guy across from you. Hutchinson and Ojabo did just that, more often than not.

That's where my hope comes in for Oweh. He's so explosive upfield, if he can consistently just get sent after the QB, I feel like he is a 10+ sack season waiting to happen. I think Bowser could be a wildcard as well. He's sneaky good as a pass rusher.

If Oweh, Bowser, and hopefully later in the season Ojabo, can get upfield and make the QB's step up quicker than they want, hopefully Campbell, Madubuike or Jones can create enough push up the middle to create traffic and get these QB's feeling nervous.

End of the day, this defensive line is not a bad unit. They're all really good at stopping the run and eating blocks for the LBers. The pass rush is going to be on the shoulders of the OLB's off the edge in Macdonalds scheme.

 

I don't think my statements were pointless.  I think maybe you missed my point.

 

I made a comment about the state of the defensive line which was somewhat negative.  You responded, "I guess we'll just ignore the signing of Pierce. And bringing our best rated defensive player in Campbell back ?"  I never said either was a bad signing.  But neither moves the dial on the defensive line bringing pressure on the QB, imo.  You are correct that it is not Pierce's job to get to the QB.  My point was simply that even though he is a good player, it does not help the Dline with bringing pressure on the QB.   And I think that is the biggest thing the Ravens need to improve upon.  

 

I believe the Ravens will have an overall top 10 defense this season.  But I have a lot of concern with the pass rush in an AFC that is QB loaded.  I think you need to generate pressure without bringing the house.  As of now, I don't think the Ravens D will be able to consistently do that.  

[Biggsy]

I don't think my statements were pointless. I think maybe you missed my point.

I made a comment about the state of the defensive line which was somewhat negative. You responded, "I guess we'll just ignore the signing of Pierce. And bringing our best rated defensive player in Campbell back ?" I never said either was a bad signing. But neither moves the dial on the defensive line bringing pressure on the QB, imo. You are correct that it is not Pierce's job to get to the QB. My point was simply that even though he is a good player, it does not help the Dline with bringing pressure on the QB. And I think that is the biggest thing the Ravens need to improve upon.

I believe the Ravens will have an overall top 10 defense this season. But I have a lot of concern with the pass rush in an AFC that is QB loaded. I think you need to generate pressure without bringing the house. As of now, I don't think the Ravens D will be able to consistently do that.

You originally said that the defensive line was a massive hole that they didn't address. Which is false. EDC did address it. He filled a massive hole at NT, with a better NT. And he drafted one of the better rated 3-4 DL prospects. Along with bringing back their best rates defensive player from the 2 years previous.

Let me ask, who could they have brought in at defensive line that would have brought them 8+ sack potential at DE or NT?

Keep in mind, Jordan Davis is a horrible answer, he was gone before their pick.

[PrimeTime]

Ravens agree to terms with FA CB Kyle Fuller

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ravens agree to terms with FA CB Kyle Fuller

Like it on name value. Don't know what he's got left in the tank

[Mike B]

Ravens agree to terms with FA CB Kyle Fuller

A veteran DB, and a local guy.  Let's hope it rejuvenates him.

He is 30 years old so he should have something left in the tank.

[BSLMikeLowe]

It's a 1-year deal according to Hensley, but no $ number yet. I'll be disappointed if it's near the $7.25m guaranteed Bradberry got, would have much preferred him.

[PrimeTime]

Like it on name value. Don't know what he's got left in the tank

If anything, Fuller is an upgrade from Seymour and other of his ilk. I would prefer to see Stephens and/or Armour-Davis seize the 3rd CB role but Fuller certainly provides better quality depth at a minimum.

[bmore_ken]

Let me ask, who could they have brought in at defensive line that would have brought them 8+ sack potential at DE or NT?

 

I think you're still missing his point. His concern is the D line bringing pressure.  He didn't say anything about sacks, unless I missed something in one of his posts. You can bring pressure on a QB and not sack him. At least that's what I got from what he posted. 

[Biggsy]

I think you're still missing his point. His concern is the D line bringing pressure. He didn't say anything about sacks, unless I missed something in one of his posts. You can bring pressure on a QB and not sack him. At least that's what I got from what he posted.

Semantics. The consistent pressure was implied when I brought up sacks. His point was we cannot pressure the QB with our 3 down lineman. And he phrased it in a way that made it seem like EDC ignored the defensive line. He didn't. And who could we have brought in that instantly gave us consistent pressure from the interior?

[hallas]

Semantics. The consistent pressure was implied when I brought up sacks. His point was we cannot pressure the QB with our 3 down lineman. And he phrased it in a way that made it seem like EDC ignored the defensive line. He didn't. And who could we have brought in that instantly gave us consistent pressure from the interior?

I think that pressure from interior linemen is a luxury that few teams are lucky to have access to. You're pretty much looking at Cameron Hayward, Aaron Donald, and that's about it. And they're both 3-technique AFAIK, so they're more like 3-4 DEs. I can't think of a single nose tackle that gets 8+ sacks a season.

Everyone wants to draft the next Aaron Donald. But there are so few of them that it's impossible to know who that will be.

[BSLChrisStoner]

@jamisonhensley

Lamar Jackson is missing the first week of the Ravens' OTAs, marking the first time that he hasn't been present at the voluntary spring workouts. John Harbaugh: "I'll just let Lamar speak for himself on that. It's for him to talk about."

 

[BaltBird 24]

Is the team tiring of Lamar?

[BSLMikeLowe]

@jamisonhensley

Lamar Jackson is missing the first week of the Ravens' OTAs, marking the first time that he hasn't been present at the voluntary spring workouts. John Harbaugh: "I'll just let Lamar speak for himself on that. It's for him to talk about."

 

Curious as to why. Hard to believe it's over a lack of an extension, when he's reportedly the one who has shown no interest to even negotiate. I guess avoiding a potential injury could be his reason, though I would think voluntary OTAs are structured in such a way that an injury there is about as likely as it is while working out on his own, and maybe less so since at OTAs there's a training staff present.

[Mackus]

I don't think anybody expected him to be there, so not sure why this is news.

[cprenegade]

I don't think he was expected to be there, the workouts are voluntary.  But the fact that they have always been voluntary and he has always showed in the past and now he is not there is why it's news.  Then you add in all of the speculation that's been swirling around over the offseason and it is something that is going to be reported on.