5723 replies to this topic

[Mackus]

Dang I was hoping to hop back in this thread and see that we had crossed the 5000 post mark.

At this point I am having a hard time seeing how anybody can support his approach to the situation. Note that is an entirely different thing than supporting him as a player!

Guy doesn't want an agent. Fine then just learn the rules, follow the rules, and make the contacts and discussions you choose to make yourself. But somehow this paints him as thinking he's special when it comes to this. News flash - he isn't.

So now he knows the rule, whether he knew it before or not or whether the guy was negotiating for him or not. Where's the issue?

[hallas]

Dang I was hoping to hop back in this thread and see that we had crossed the 5000 post mark.

At this point I am having a hard time seeing how anybody can support his approach to the situation. Note that is an entirely different thing than supporting him as a player!

Guy doesn't want an agent. Fine then just learn the rules, don't get caught breaking the rules, and make the contacts and discussions you choose to make yourself. But somehow this paints him as thinking he's special when it comes to this. News flash - he isn't.

Fixed that for ya.

[Mackus]

I dislike making broad comparisons, but some people are saying a reason for him to have an agent is for "off the record" conversations with teams to gauge interest before FA even begins and other people (or maybe the same ones) are saying hire an agent so you don't break the rules.

Agent bending the rules knowingly: good business
Lamar bending the rules (possibly unknowingly): stupid idiot

[weird-O]

Its not a big deal unless he insists on having someone non-certified speak for him, which I doubt will be the case.  Seems likely to me that he didn't know the rule and sent a business partner to reach out to teams.  Maybe that guy discussed numbers, maybe not, either way he isn't allowed to do that so the league reminded everybody via the memo, probably laying it on thick so that Lamar got the message.  Fair to say Lamar should've known better, but really, where is the harm done?  

Those two things are the same thing. I'm reminded of the Euclid scene from Lincoln. 

[mdrunning]

He doesnt want an agent. Why should it have to be an NFLPA agent that talks and shoots the shit. If it has to be an agent or Lamar to actually negotiate whatever but I call bull on needing to be an agent to represent Lamar for all talks

Every sport has a certification process for agents. I'm not sure which actually initiated the process, but in the nascent days of MLB's post-Messersmith era, some players were being charged as much 10 percent for an agent's services, which was absolute gouging by any standard. That led the MLBPA to take steps to regulate agents' fees and curb some of the abuses.

 

In baseball, a representative can be listed as a General Agent (who actually negotiates the contract) or a Limited Agent, who is permitted to recruit clients and act as an adviser to the agent. (A player just entering organized baseball, such as one taken in the MLB Amateur Draft, is not required to use a certified agent.)  In the NFL, a prospective agent must possess a four-year degree from an accredited institution to be considered as an agent.

 

Whether certification is necessary or not depends on who you talk to. To the respective players associations, it's a necessary means of protecting their constituents. To those wishing to represent professional athletes, it's nothing more than a money grab. The application fee alone for MLB is $2,500, which I'm guessing is not refundable. Agents are also subject to expensive annual fees from the respective unions for the privilege of representing their players. If nothing else, it's a nice source of free money for those organizations.

 

And just in case anyone cares, who was the first player in any sport to have professional representation? Red Grange. . .in 1925.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Why would they do that? Why would they simply let him go to free agency and not get some sort of compensation? That makes no sense. In terms of it being BS that it has to be Lamar or an agent, that’s in the CBA agreed-upon by the league and the players association. He simply has to follow the freaking rules, so either get an agent or make the calls your damn self, one or the other. Furthermore, lying about Ken Francis reaching out to gauge interest on Lamar’s behalf makes him look even more foolish. Put it all together, and Lamar’s star is starting to get very tarnished in the eyes of many fans, and certainly the league.

Of course the Ravens have to get more compensation than a 3rd rounder. They need Lamar as their QB or terrific compensation for losing him. The juice is indeed worth the squeeze but thats the Ravens call. Thats all Im saying. Get frustrated all you want with how things are going and what it might mean for FA,OTAs, training camp. There was another option. If it was so bad, you had had enough and refused to take any of this on the you could have chose not to tag.

[weird-O]

I dislike making broad comparisons, but some people are saying a reason for him to have an agent is for "off the record" conversations with teams to gauge interest before FA even begins and other people (or maybe the same ones) are saying hire an agent so you don't break the rules.

Agent bending the rules knowingly: good business
Lamar bending the rules (possibly unknowingly): stupid idiot

Lamar violated that rule. That's not the same as bending or skirting around something. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

We dont know Lamar violated any rule. We dont know the dude was actually negotiating or trying to negotiate. The NFL was getting out in front of things.

[Mike in STL]

Its not a big deal unless he insists on having someone non-certified speak for him, which I doubt will be the case.  Seems likely to me that he didn't know the rule and sent a business partner to reach out to teams.  Maybe that guy discussed numbers, maybe not, either way he isn't allowed to do that so the league reminded everybody via the memo, probably laying it on thick so that Lamar got the message.  Fair to say Lamar should've known better, but really, where is the harm done?  

I'm more annoyed with the fact that he's always like "stop lying" when I don't think anyone is "lying", except him. And Harbaugh, and EDC to an extent in a different way. But mostly him. Or he's ignorant, which isn't an excuse. He slipped out a bit of the contract proposal from last year, calling Schefter a liar, and Schefter responded on national television in the tone of, "no, MFer, I saw the contract, your wrong, and you're not going question my credibility." 

 

But hey, now he's making a half hearted attempt at "mental health awareness". So lets take it easy on the guy. He's not okay and that's okay.

[weird-O]

We dont know Lamar violated any rule. We dont know the dude was actually negotiating or trying to negotiate. The NFL was getting out in front of things.

Sure, it's possible that Lamar had no idea that his business partner took it upon himself to reach out to teams on his (Lamar's) behalf. I wouldn't bet on that though.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Sure, it's possible that Lamar had no idea that his business partner took it upon himself to reach out to teams on his (Lamar's) behalf. I wouldn't bet on that though.

I think Lamar had the guy reach out on his behalf. I guess Im stuck on the "negotiating" aspect or wording.

[Mackus]

Lamar violated that rule. That's not the same as bending or skirting around something.

I think it's the exact same.

And at a technical level, I don't think Lamar can violate that rule. It's certainly unprofessional, but he can send anyone he wants to negotiate with a team and there isn't any penalty he might face. It's the team's responsibility to not negotiate with any rep that isn't authorized by the union.

[weird-O]

I think Lamar had the guy talk or reach out on his behalf. I guess Im stuck on the negotiating aspect or wording.

Reaching out on Lamar's behalf would qualify as "assisting" which is explicitly prohibited, according to the memo. So if you think Lamar asked his friend to call teams on his behalf, then, by definition, you must accept that he violated the rule. This isn't a discussion of 'to what degree did he break the rule". It's pretty clear it was a minor infraction. But it is still in violation. Figures don't have to be exchanged in order for someone to be officially negotiating.    

[weird-O]

It's the exact same.

And at a technical level, I don't think Lamar can violate that rule. It's certainly unprofessional, but he can send anyone he wants to negotiate with a team and there isn't any penalty he might face. It's the team's responsibility to not negotiate with any rep that isn't authorized by the union.

Spin this anyway you need to.    

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Btw this is why Im convinced Lamar is being used by the PA. They know he doesnt have proper and adequate representation. I sense Lamar isnt trying to rock the boat with the PA. He will fall in line pretty easily. Still comes back to being baffled why he wont hire an agent. If I could ask Lamar one question thats easily the one right now

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Spin this anyway you need to.

I think its spot on. Lamars act is unprofessional but hes not violating any rules.

[makoman]

I think some are getting hung up on the term "contract negotiations." From the CBA definitions:

 

“Negotiate” means, with respect to a player or his representatives on the one hand, and an NFL Club or its representatives on the other hand, to engage in any written or oral communication relating to efforts to reach agreement on employment and/or terms of employment between such player and such Club.

 

To me even calling to gauge interest is "efforts to reach agreement on employment."

 

And yes, any penalties are to the club only, other than the penalty that any contract could be disapproved.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I think some are getting hung up on the term "contract negotiations." From the CBA definitions:





“Negotiate” means, with respect to a player or his representatives on the one hand, and an NFL Club or its representatives on the other hand, to engage in any written or oral communication relating to efforts to reach agreement on employment and/or terms of employment between such player and such Club.

To me even calling to gauge interest is "efforts to reach agreement on employment."

And yes, any penalties are to the club only, other than the penalty that any contract could be disapproved.

Fair enough. I thinks its BS but yes I better understand that pretty much no talks about Lamar are allowed.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

1. He knew the rules and at least skirted them if not violated them. 

Result - bad look.

 

2. He didn't know the rules and now he does.

Result - bad look.

 

How can a guy who is wanting the kind of money only lottery winners can think of and not be smart enough to read and understand the rules guiding his situation. That just doesn't give me a warm fuzzy on his intelligence level. Nothing wrong with not understanding something that may be quite complex. Which is exactly why you hire someone who does understand those complexities.

[weird-O]

I think its spot on. Lamars act is unprofessional but hes not violating any rules.

I see your line of thinking. Only a team can violate the rule. Hence, Lamar, because he isn't an NFL owner or exec, couldn't violate that rule. Hence, he did nothing wrong.