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Lamar - Extension?


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#4721 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 11:47 AM

Sean Gilbert is the only guy to sign a sheet and switch teams for the picks. I can't find any other franchise tag players that even signed a sheet.

Steve Hutchison signed an offer sheet, but he was technically on the transition tag at the time. Nate Burleson was then signed as an RFA. These were the two deals that led to the NFL removing the poison pill.

Knew it was etremely rare to even get an offer.

#4722 jamesdean

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 11:52 AM

I'll have to check it out.

Thanks for the heads up.

(2) Lamar Jackson announces EXCLUSIVE interview - YouTube



#4723 DuffMan

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:02 PM

Like anyone should give a s*** about Truzz Productionz or Lamar Jackson Enterprises. 

 

He wants to sign a long term deal with the Ravens and invest in a minority share of ownership in the Orioles, or even in boring stuff like real estate development, great. You have my attention. 

 

He's doing this to get people to "like and subscribe?" Lol. Is his camp made up of teenagers?

Smash the subscribe button!!


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#4724 BSLChrisStoner

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:04 PM

Cautionary tale. 

 

Last year, Orlando Brown Jr. turned down a 6/$139M deal. $23.1 AAV, $30.25M signing bonus. $95M due to him in the first five years. Turned it down because it would have been $44M base salary in the final year the Chiefs could cut him with no dead money. Would have been the biggest LT contract in history.

 

This year, Brown signed a 4/$64M deal with Cincy. $16M AAV. $31M signing bonus. $49.9M due to him in first the three years. 

He's the 17th highest paid LT. 

 

If you consider the Chiefs deal to be in actuality a 5/$95M deal, that they would definitely cut him and not try to extend him, thats still $19M AAV. $3M more than what the Bengals are giving. 

 

This for a guy who actually plays all his games at the second most coveted position on a team.

 

Is the contract he got with Cincinnati in line with what he would have got as a RT?   

(He of course wanted to leave Baltimore so he could be a LT and get a larger deal.)



#4725 makoman

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:07 PM

Knew it was etremely rare to even get an offer.


Most players aren’t worth two 1sts. I could be wrong but believe Brees, Cousins, and Prescott were exclusive. Cassel was nonexclusive and traded for less than two 1sts IIRC. Those are the only QBs I’m aware of.
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#4726 mdrunning

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:08 PM

Sean Gilbert is the only guy to sign a sheet and switch teams for the picks.  I can't find any other franchise tag players that even signed a sheet.

 

Steve Hutchison signed an offer sheet, but he was technically on the transition tag at the time.  Nate Burleson was then signed as an RFA.  These were the two deals that led to the NFL removing the poison pill.

Matt Cassel was tagged by New England in 2009, then traded to Kansas City 23 days later and was signed to a massive extension by the Chiefs. Not an offer sheet scenario, of course, but an example of a de facto sign-and-trade.



#4727 Mackus

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:10 PM

Most players aren’t worth two 1sts. I could be wrong but believe Brees, Cousins, and Prescott were exclusive. Cassel was nonexclusive and traded for less than two 1sts IIRC. Those are the only QBs I’m aware of.

 

Posted this a week or two ago.  And Prescott the second time wasn't really a tag, they had already agreed to the extension but Dallas tagged him first as a favor or contingency of the extension, so that the next time he's up a tag would be his third (44% increase).

 

Its only been used for QBs as far as I am aware.  I think the entire history is Prescott (twice), Cousins (the second time), Brees in 2012, and Peyton Manning twice (2011 and 2004).

 

Brees (2005), Cassel (2009), Vick (2011),  and Cousins (2016) are the QBs who've received the non-exclusive.

 

That's if what I've found is accurate.  Its hard to find the exact details of exclusive vs non-exclusive.


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#4728 Mackus

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:19 PM

Matt Cassel was tagged by New England in 2009, then traded to Kansas City 23 days later and was signed to a massive extension by the Chiefs. Not an offer sheet scenario, of course, but an example of a de facto sign-and-trade.

 

There are a lot of examples of a player being tagged and then traded for (sometimes a lot) less than two firsts.  And many thought not all of those times the player then signs a deal with the new team.

 

Yannick Ngakoue did it before the Ravens got him, for example.  Jags tagged him, traded to Minn for a 2nd round pick plus some other stuff, and then they traded him during the season to the Ravens for I think a 3rd.   He was traded to Minnesota after the extension deadline, so he of course hadn't extended with them and then was dealt before the league trade deadline as their season unraveled.



#4729 hallas

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:21 PM

Another possibility I thought of is that the Ravens applied the non-exclusive tag and told every team that was in a position to make an offer that they would match. If the other teams drop out due to this fact, that leaves very few teams able to make an offer that can't be matched.
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#4730 makoman

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:24 PM

Posted this a week or two ago.  And Prescott the second time wasn't really a tag, they had already agreed to the extension but Dallas tagged him first as a favor or contingency of the extension, so that the next time he's up a tag would be his third (44% increase).

This article also lists Steve Young and Jim Harbaugh. Both apparently signed extensions that year. No idea if the tag rules were basically the same in the 90s.

 

https://www.sporting...ees2by0nbuxaawa



#4731 makoman

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:25 PM

Another possibility I thought of is that the Ravens applied the non-exclusive tag and told every team that was in a position to make an offer that they would match. If the other teams drop out due to this fact, that leaves very few teams able to make an offer that can't be matched.

They didn't have to say it explicitly, they've basically said that they're willing to match.

 

Obviously they may have said so or differently privately, but their actions and public words have said they plan to match IMO.



#4732 mdrunning

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:26 PM

This article also lists Steve Young and Jim Harbaugh. Both apparently signed extensions that year. No idea if the tag rules were basically the same in the 90s.

 

https://www.sporting...ees2by0nbuxaawa

I was wondering that as well. I did read where both Young and Harbaugh were given the non-exclusive tag, however.



#4733 hallas

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:28 PM

They didn't have to say it explicitly, they've basically said that they're willing to match.

 

Obviously they may have said so or differently privately, but their actions and public words have said they plan to match IMO.

 

"willing to match" and "are going to match" I think are different things.  If they told teams privately that they are going to match, then that would likely dissuade them from even trying because the opportunity cost of tying up that much space to an offer sheet that is definitely going to get matched is too high.  Given that only 2 teams were unequivocally in a position to write an unmatchable offer, one of them has a quarterback they're building around, and the other one used up a bunch of cap already, that doesn't leave Lamar with a lot of landing spots at this point.



#4734 Ravens2006

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:34 PM

...if you consider the Chiefs deal to be in actuality a 5/$95M deal, that they would definitely cut him and not try to extend him, thats still $19M AAV. $3M more than what the Bengals are giving...

I think Brown is a fine LT. Not great, not one of the best in the game, but good. Very good in some aspects, lacking in others.

I also think he was fortunate to have Jackson and Mahomes as his QBs for the meat of his career. Because one of the things he does NOT do at a high level is play at full tilt through the whistle. He turns it off when he thinks his job is done. The last two QBs could make plays and save the team from sacks when protection breaks down. Burrow isn't exactly Scott Mitchell, but he isn't going to bail out his OL mistakes with his feet very often.

Folks should watch the Ravens loss at BUF in January of 21. On the 100 yard or whatever it was INT return, the dude with the ball runs right past Brown who makes literally NO real attempt to touch him. Was he maybe out of reach? Sure, maybe. But to stand there flat footed and do nothing? Yeah, I dunno about that.

Late in the game someone fumbled, I think Huntley, and you can see other players from farther away rallying to the ball... Brown again standing still and watching.

If I had to guess one way or another, I think CIN will be disappointed with his efforts before long

#4735 makoman

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:38 PM

"willing to match" and "are going to match" I think are different things.  If they told teams privately that they are going to match, then that would likely dissuade them from even trying because the opportunity cost of tying up that much space to an offer sheet that is definitely going to get matched is too high.  Given that only 2 teams were unequivocally in a position to write an unmatchable offer, one of them has a quarterback they're building around, and the other one used up a bunch of cap already, that doesn't leave Lamar with a lot of landing spots at this point.

Fair enough. I do think it's reasonable to speculate that some teams said "I'm not going to negotiate for them and waste my time and do a bunch of restructures just so they can match." They've constantly indicated they want him long term in public, whether they've told teams privately or not, and have made (very few) moves suggesting that they are saving their money if needed.



#4736 bmore_ken

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:39 PM


that doesn't leave Lamar with a lot of landing spots at this point.


As I said in an earlier post Lamar's not going anywhere this season

#4737 hallas

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:43 PM

As I said in an earlier post Lamar's not going anywhere this season

 

The Ravens having to save an extra 20 million in cap is killing us in terms of roster construction though.  We can't make any moves unless they're basically cap-neutral, so that eliminates almost any free agent acquisition.



#4738 hallas

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:47 PM

Fair enough. I do think it's reasonable to speculate that some teams said "I'm not going to negotiate for them and waste my time and do a bunch of restructures just so they can match." They've constantly indicated they want him long term in public, whether they've told teams privately or not, and have made (very few) moves suggesting that they are saving their money if needed.

 

I think the right of first refusal on a non-exclusive tag is going to be on the chopping block next CBA because of this.  To balance this out they will probably increase the compensation for players signed on the tag after the draft, and players signed to teams with low first rounders.

 

Spitballing here, but one proposal could be that if your first rounder is 20th or lower, you get their 2nd rounder too.  If you wait till after the draft, you give up 2 firsts and 2 2nds.


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#4739 makoman

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 12:56 PM

I think the right of first refusal on a non-exclusive tag is going to be on the chopping block next CBA because of this.  To balance this out they will probably increase the compensation for players signed on the tag after the draft, and players signed to teams with low first rounders.

 

Spitballing here, but one proposal could be that if your first rounder is 20th or lower, you get their 2nd rounder too.  If you wait till after the draft, you give up 2 firsts and 2 2nds.

That seems reasonable. Most players won't be worth so much compensation so you'll still retain a lot of control as the tagging team, but the player is free to leave if he can find a place and the other team has clarity that an offer that's accepted is really accepted.

 

I know nothing about the NBA, but I've read people in the past few weeks saying it's mostly the same with restricted free agents there, most people don't put in an offer on anyone worthwhile because they expect a match so the market gets suppressed. 



#4740 Mike in STL

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Posted 20 March 2023 - 02:04 PM

Is the contract he got with Cincinnati in line with what he would have got as a RT?
(He of course wanted to leave Baltimore so he could be a LT and get a larger deal.)



Perhaps. I think I remember him saying it was a legacy thing he wanted to be a LT. The Bengals may have obliged but a lower price tag which he took because Jonah Williams, their starting LT, requested a trade right after the signing.
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