5723 replies to this topic

[You Play to Win the Game]

I mean, Mackus is right. If Lamar is here next year and moving forward, it will always be an unequivocal mistake they didn’t extend him sooner.

[Mike B]

I mean, Mackus is right. If Lamar is here next year and moving forward, it will always be an unequivocal mistake they didn’t extend him sooner.

I maintain that if LJ had an agent this would have been done a year ago.

[Mackus]

I maintain that if LJ had an agent this would have been done a year ago.

This only makes sense if you think Lamar works for the agent and not the agent working for Lamar.

Why would what Lamar wants be different if he hired an agent? He's not asking for anything wildly different than what other QBs have gotten. A tiny increment over Watson is reasonable.

I'd love to know how close they got to a deal two years ago before Watson's, and what Lamar wanted then. If he was asking for similar to the recent Mahomes deal, or actually ahead of the game asking for full guarantee, I understand them passing at that time. If he was asking for more like what Allen got, then it was a huge mistake in not agreeing at the time.

[BSLChrisStoner]

The Ravens made an offer that Jackson rejected before this '22 season. 
What happened during the year to encourage the Ravens to offer more? 

 

There is complexity here, and there is also simplicity. 

 

Are the Ravens motivated to offer more (be it more $ overall, more guaranteed, more years) than they did? 
Is Jackson motivated to compromise at all? Has he told the Ravens what exactly he wants? 
Do the Ravens have a redline?  
 

I just want to see resolution as quick as possible either way. 

 

[bmore_ken]

I maintain that if LJ had an agent this would have been done a year ago.

I've said the same thing several times. No agent was needed for his rookie deal. But once the 5th year option was invoked, an agent should have been immediately hired. 

[bmore_ken]

When it's all said and done, the Watson deal will be the worst in the history of professional sports.

I doubt it. Players in the 70's couldn't have imagined QBs making $30M a year as standard practice. I doubt Watson is the last guy who will get a fully guaranteed contract.

[Mackus]

I've said the same thing several times. No agent was needed for his rookie deal. But once the 5th year option was invoked, an agent should have been immediately hired.

Again, why?

Wouldn't an agent just help Lamar get what he wants? Why do people think an agent would encourage Lamar to take less than an inferior fellow QB?

Agents pretty universally are in the business of getting players more money. There aren't a lot of stories of agents telling players to shoot for a middle of the pack deal.

[makoman]

This only makes sense if you think Lamar works for the agent and not the agent working for Lamar.

Why would what Lamar wants be different if he hired an agent? He's not asking for anything wildly different than what other QBs have gotten. A tiny increment over Watson is reasonable.

I'd love to know how close they got to a deal two years ago before Watson's, and what Lamar wanted then. If he was asking for similar to the recent Mahomes deal, or actually ahead of the game asking for full guarantee, I understand them passing at that time. If he was asking for more like what Allen got, then it was a huge mistake in not agreeing at the time.

I think if Lamar had an agent a deal would have been done around when Allen was, for a similar amount. He doesn't have an agent in his ear telling him to extend. An agent wants the deal done ASAP to lock in commissions, and an agent will be another person telling him concerns about career ending injuries. An agent will also keep the NFLPA out of the negotiations.

 

It's not that Lamar works for an agent, it's that having an agent would show that Lamar is more typical, and that's just what happens with top QBs--extend after the 3rd year. It will be shocking for example if Burrow and Herbert and I guess Hurts too don't extend this offseason. I have no idea about Tua, but the concussions complicate that. But an extension is the safe and typical way to go, just lock in 9 figures and be set for several lifetimes.

 

As it is, Lamar is obviously not typical. I've said that I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to wait that extra year, I.e. till last offseason. When Allen signed the Mahomes deal was still fairly fresh, the length was crazy but a lot of people also felt it set a cap on the AAV. All pro athletes have some kind of ego to get where they are, and Lamar has bit of a chip on his shoulder, for being the 5th QB drafted and often being called a RB. Getting a higher AAV than Mahomes and Allen and being the top paid would give some degree of satisfaction. But he needed to wait for that, it was going to take time to surpass Mahomes, and last offseason that finally happened (by AAV). He wasn't terribly afraid of injury and again no agent is telling him those concerns, and assuming the leaks are correct, he would have indeed gotten a massive contract. If the Watson deal would have had normal guarantees then I'd guess Lamar takes that leaked offer, and waiting probably was a reasonable idea. But Watson did happen, he had another comp with the guarantees to shoot even higher, and then the PA got involved to make it bigger than just Lamar, creating a big mess.

 

That's all obviously very speculative. But I am not sure the Ravens could have signed him in 2021 without beating the Mahomes deal. Should they have? In hindsight maybe, but I don't blame them for not doing it at the time. No one could foresee the Watson deal. 

[bmore_ken]

Again, why?

Wouldn't an agent just help Lamar get what he wants? Why do people think an agent would encourage Lamar to take less than an inferior fellow QB?

Agents pretty universally are in the business of getting players more money. There aren't a lot of stories of agents telling players to shoot for a middle of the pack deal.

An agent wouldn't have broken off negotiations when the season started. Lamar did so by his own words that he needed to focus on football. The agent wouldn't have had that issue. 

[Mackus]

Dak had an agent, right? He went the franchise route rather than take the best offer from Dallas.

Same with Cousins and Washington, right?

Lamar would've hired an agent who convinced him he could help Lamar get what he wants. I think everyone is really saying "if Lamar's desires were different" and not "if Lamar had an agent".

[Mike B]

I've said the same thing several times. No agent was needed for his rookie deal. But once the 5th year option was invoked, an agent should have been immediately hired. 

I think he is trusting the NFLPA and while they may have the best interest of players in mind, that does not have to mean they have the best interest of Lamar in front.  They want Lamar to hold steady in his demand for a guaranteed deal, but if Lamar gets hurt, loses a season as a holdout etc. they will just move the battlefield to the next player.

I also think of Lamar everytime I see Baker Mayfield and Pat Mahomes doing commercials.  And agent would have Lamar getting at least a share of that money.

[bmore_ken]

I think he is trusting the NFLPA and while they may have the best interest of players in mind, that does not have to mean they have the best interest of Lamar in front.  They want Lamar to hold steady in his demand for a guaranteed deal, but if Lamar gets hurt, loses a season as a holdout etc. they will just move the battlefield to the next player.

I also think of Lamar everytime I see Baker Mayfield and Pat Mahomes doing commercials.  And agent would have Lamar getting at least a share of that money.

I'm still not sure Lamar ever wanted to do commercials. I'm equally unsure that he wasn't approached about it, agent or not. 

[Mackus]

An agent wouldn't have broken off negotiations when the season started. Lamar did so by his own words that he needed to focus on football. The agent wouldn't have had that issue.

Plenty of players have that rule even with agents. Aaron Judge, for example. Different sport, but he set an Opening Day deadline for a deal or else was gonna go through the season.

I don't think having an agent would've changed Lamar's preseason deadline.

[ivanbalt]

I doubt it. Players in the 70's couldn't have imagined QBs making $30M a year as standard practice. I doubt Watson is the last guy who will get a fully guaranteed contract.

It's not just the guarantee, but all the other stuff.

[mdrunning]

Cincinnati reportedly wants to get a deal done with Joe Burrow this offseason. It'll be interesting to see the parameters of that deal and if it does serve as a bellwether for future QB contracts in terms of AAV and total value. (And the Bengals are likely going to have to move off of their preferred contract structure, which typically guarantee less overall money than comparable deals on other teams.)

 

Burrow could very well end up as the highest-paid player per annum, but is he going to push through the ceilings set by DeShaun Watson in terms of fully-guaranteed money or Patrick Mahomes' total contract value? Probably not. What's important is if Burrow's deal doesn't contain fully-guaranteed money, then Lamar might have to re-think his position. 

[mdrunning]

An agent wouldn't have broken off negotiations when the season started. Lamar did so by his own words that he needed to focus on football. The agent wouldn't have had that issue. 

An agent also negotiated DeShaun Watson's deal.

[You Play to Win the Game]

This only makes sense if you think Lamar works for the agent and not the agent working for Lamar.

Why would what Lamar wants be different if he hired an agent? He's not asking for anything wildly different than what other QBs have gotten. A tiny increment over Watson is reasonable.

I'd love to know how close they got to a deal two years ago before Watson's, and what Lamar wanted then. If he was asking for similar to the recent Mahomes deal, or actually ahead of the game asking for full guarantee, I understand them passing at that time. If he was asking for more like what Allen got, then it was a huge mistake in not agreeing at the time.

Def not reasonable. What he’s asking for has been given out exactly one time prior in the history of the league, and was done by a terrible organization. How is that demand reasonable? The good agents have the ear of their talent. It’s a give and take.

You want to ignore the guaranteed angle, even though 20% ain’t nothing, but clearly the Ravens who do this every day for a living disagree. If they thought it was reasonable, this thread wouldn’t exist.

[Mike B]

I'm still not sure Lamar ever wanted to do commercials. I'm equally unsure that he wasn't approached about it, agent or not. 

I read somewhere, that he was not contacted about the Heisman House commercials.  I am not sure why he would not want to do them.  It is just another way to get paid.  

He has something on his Twitter account about how to contact him with business opportunities but I can not see many companies doing that.

[Mackus]

Def not reasonable. What he’s asking for has been given out exactly one time prior in the history of the league, and was done by a terrible organization. How is that demand reasonable?

 

Because its happened its now reasonable.  That's the way that contracts work.  Constant game of leapfrog.  Look at Adams asking for more than Hill had just gotten, which had only happened one time ever (or maybe I have the order backwards).

 

Asking for something very similar to what an inferior player has already gotten can't be viewed as an unreasonable ask.  The market is set.  He's asking for something very much in concert with that.  I also think its reasonable for the Ravens to not want to go to that level.  No bad guys here, just a bad end result.

[PrimeTime]

Again, why?

Wouldn't an agent just help Lamar get what he wants? Why do people think an agent would encourage Lamar to take less than an inferior fellow QB?

Agents pretty universally are in the business of getting players more money. There aren't a lot of stories of agents telling players to shoot for a middle of the pack deal.

 

A middle of the pack deal is a bit hyperbolic. The line in the sand that the Ravens seemingly don't want to cross is fully guaranteeing the deal and Lamar doesn't seem to want to back off of that demand. Where others speculate that having an agent would make a difference is that the agent could point to other recent deals like Kyler Murray and Russell Wilson as a more realistic goal, rather than trying to get a Watson like deal. The AAV on the Murray and Wilson deals are actually higher than Watson's but with less guarantees of course.

 

Lamar is going after the unicorn and I don't blame him for doing so but it certainly doesn't seem like the Ravens are willing to budge and Lamar, without any other counsel, seems unwilling to budge either. Based on that premise, it's perfectly logical to think that an agent for Jackson would make a difference, in that an agent could potentially break the impasse.

 

Lastly, and this is more esoteric, it must make negotiations tough when there is no buffer between the player and the front office. Not unlike going to an arbitration hearing with a player in baseball where the team is arguing their case and has to point out the player's weaknesses to justify their salary number.