544 replies to this topic

[russsnyder]

...so....these things are already in the current structure.
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This is actually one of the ways agents used to try and manipulate the draft. They would demand that their client be placed on the 40-man as part of their signing (a "major league contract") which would force the team to begin burning options on them from their 1st year in the system so that they'd be required to be on the (then) 25-man by year 4. Dylan Bundy was the last guy to get this and it likely negatively impacted his development, especially as a HS pitcher. Draft slotting has eliminated the ability of agents to make outrageous demands (both salary and roster status) to try and get their clients to slide to the teams (read: Yankees) they would rather play for.

My question would be, was Yusniel Diaz paid a major league salary for spending all of 2021 on the 40 man roster?

[russsnyder]

Hard salary cap and salary minimum. No luxury tax.

No draft. Players sign a contract anytime they want for as long as they want. But a contract is a contract. Don't sign if you don't like it.

Players will perform quickly or get moved out.

Players have control over their careers.

Product at the MLB level will be improved.

The only way the draft goes is if the NFL gets rid of their draft.( Not likely)

The MLB draft is now being touted as an event that is broadcast on its channels.

However, to your point, the draft has been greatly cut back. There are less guys getting drafted and a higher percentage signing as undrafted FAs.

[Mackus]

The only way the draft goes is if the NFL gets rid of their draft.( Not likely)

The MLB draft is now being touted as an event that is broadcast on its channels.

However, to your point, the draft has been greatly cut back. There are less guys getting drafted and a higher percentage signing as undrafted FAs.

 

It's never going to happen, because nobody who benefits from the draft being replaced with open free agency is negotiating (current players don't see much need to negotiate for future union members, owners want to keep a cheap supply of new incoming talent).

 

But from a marketing standpoint, I'm sure they could do something with a "signing day" to replace the draft coverage.

 

The end of the draft has been cut back.  Eliminating rounds 21-50+doesn't at all address the guys who would benefit from an open market system.

[Mike in STL]

What currently stops a player from entering the draft, and at some point soon after signing with the team of his choice?

[Nigel Tufnel]

What currently stops a player from entering the draft, and at some point soon after signing with the team of his choice?

 

The rules.

[dude]

My question would be, was Yusniel Diaz paid a major league salary for spending all of 2021 on the 40 man roster?

 

So I may be wrong about what I said earlier.  This article says that once you are on the 40 your minor league salary goes to 46k for your first ML contract and 93k for your second. It doesn't say what the 3rd is.

 

There's plenty of other references where we can see "rest of the players on the 40" and see a higher allocation (based on $565+k).

 

It does explain Pat Valaika's contract last year where he was on the split contract (something like 385k in the minors, 800k in the majors) but still on the 40.

 

So I'd like to sit on the fence a little.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

I'm not sure what you mean by improved.

 

You rail against the impact of money constantly and your assertions of the current system are provably false.....

 

...yet you want to implement changes to the system that would likely consequent in the exact way that you think is terrible.

 

You are suggesting what you think is the worst version of The Game would be the "improved" version of The Game.

 

Others have mentioned Soccer League structures (classes of teams) and college football....that would be the likely consequence....handfuls of Super Teams and other places (like Baltimore) fighting the second tier.

Not going to debate whether this is correct or not.

What I am suggesting is that with a hard min AND max you level the playing field.

[dude]

Not going to debate whether this is correct or not.

 

Well that's progress, I guess.  The last 3 times you debated it you were proven wrong by things like math and statistics.  Because you don't like the answer doesn't mean the answer is wrong (unless you live in Portland).

[russsnyder]

It's never going to happen, because nobody who benefits from the draft being replaced with open free agency is negotiating (current players don't see much need to negotiate for future union members, owners want to keep a cheap supply of new incoming talent).

But from a marketing standpoint, I'm sure they could do something with a "signing day" to replace the draft coverage.

The end of the draft has been cut back. Eliminating rounds 21-50+doesn't at all address the guys who would benefit from an open market system.

Spot on with the owners' need for the cheaper labor that comes with the draft.

" Signing Day" would suck compared to the draft. Not enough juice IMO.

No doubt, there are also less minor league teams since the contraction a couple of years ago. Less filler type slots.

[russsnyder]

So I may be wrong about what I said earlier. This article says that once you are on the 40 your minor league salary goes to 46k for your first ML contract and 93k for your second. It doesn't say what the 3rd is.

There's plenty of other references where we can see "rest of the players on the 40" and see a higher allocation (based on $565+k).

It does explain Pat Valaika's contract last year where he was on the split contract (something like 385k in the minors, 800k in the majors) but still on the 40.

So I'd like to sit on the fence a little.

Thanks for posting the article.

I didn't know that there was more or less a bonus tied to being on the forty man.

My proposal is that everyone who is on the 40 man at the end of ST who does not have an existing ML contract gets $ 570,500 for as long as they are on the 40 man and gets ML service time as well.

[dude]

If we wanted an idea that fits largely into todays structure that would create some of the outcomes people seem to want....

 

Change the Super-2 status to 60% (or something like that...vice 22%) and add a year of control to existing service.

 

If that line is more in flux where you can't really reasonably manage the outcome, teams will stop worrying about it because managing it becomes more detrimental to a given season.  That would put more players on a 5-year arbitration track and arbitration is the best salary escalator for the Player community. That escalation would lead to more negotiated deals (player are further from FA and those players get more significant bumps) or Players would actually get to FA sooner since the arbitration costs are going up for more players in the Super-2 group.

 

The Player result is more money earlier, more opportunity to negotiate a contract or FA sooner than today.

 

Owners, in theory, have control of the best players for an extra year and accept the potential cost of paying what they'll pay.

[BaltBird 24]

Can't say I'll be all that upset if there's a lockout. Weird, because I use to look forward to the baseball season.

[Mike B]

Can't say I'll be all that upset if there's a lockout. Weird, because I use to look forward to the baseball season.

Yea, as long as the Orioles are choosing to not field a major league team, I will not be that upset if they strike.

[Ravens2006]

Well another shortened season could help them avoid another 100 loss season.

Consider that... If not for COVID, the Orioles would have just finished their fourth straight 100+ loss season, with a 5th almost guaranteed already. 5 straight 100 loss seasons!!!

And no, don't tell me they'd be much better off if not for COVID hurting them. Don't buy it for a second.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Expires at midnight tomorrow night. The league plans to lockout the players at that time. However, they don't lose income until the start of the regular season, so that doesn't really mean much at the end of the day. 

 

Updates from today's negotiations (basically there is no progress) - https://www.espn.com...ire-sources-say

 

It will be interesting to follow all this. Could have a truly transformative effect on the game, roster building, etc. moving forward. 

[BaltBird 24]

I could use a season or two break from baseball, honestly.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Everything points to them being relatively close. There is no threat to the reg season or even ST for that matter.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Evan Drellich@EvanDrellich

 

The MLBPA has been told negotiations are over for the day. At midnight eastern, the owners can lock out the players.

[Old Man]

Evan Drellich@EvanDrellich

 

The MLBPA has been told negotiations are over for the day. At midnight eastern, the owners can lock out the players.

No surprise there. I think the owners have been wanting this from day 1.

 

Im not taking sides. I think there is enough money to come up with a fair CBA for everybody. 

 

Fans, owners and the players.

 

Nobody wins in a lockout.

 

I said at the last lockout, Im done with baseball, if they pull this crap again.

 

Well, Im going to reel that back and bit and see how long this lockout lasts, before walking away.

 

Life is too short and too much drama in the real world, to let my recreation time get impacted by any more drama than there already is.

[BaltBird 24]

Oh look, extremely rich people arguing with out of this world rich people.