155 replies to this topic

[BobPhelan]

No I get that. I’m saying with all the talent you have to use all 10 of your slots

Ah gotcha my bad.

[Mike B]

Disgusting to me if Ortiz is 1st ballot

Agreed, but be prepared to be disgusted, because he has become a media favorite.

 

JMO, he used PED's and got away with it.  Also, his whole act, rings phony to me.

[SBTarheel]

I don't think he gets in on the first ballot. The DH thing will hold him back this year in my opinion. I'd bet he gets in next year. He does seem to be well liked by everyone, as opposed to Bonds, Clemens, and Rodriguez, though A Rod has changed a lot of minds in the court of public opinion. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

ESPN: Not as great: Assessing Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens without the PED factor

https://www.espn.com...ract-ped-factor

[SBTarheel]

The steroid thing is not an issue for me personally, but I get that it is for some, and while I don't agree, I respect it. 

 

What I don't get, and likely never will, is how anyone can vote for Bonds, Clemens, and Papi, but not A Rod, which the most recent voter (Jay Cohen of the AP) just did. Doesn't make sense. It can't be the first ballot thing, as Ortiz is a first ballot guy too, Now I don't think of Ortiz as the same as I do Bonds, Clemens, and A Rod, but again, i realize some do. 

 

I know it's opinion, and that's fine, but it just doesn't make sense to me at all. David Ortiz' family doesn't think he was a better player than Alex Rodriguez, so what can possibly be holding this guy back from voting for A Rod, since clearly steroids aren't the issue. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

Agree with that Seth.  It's mental gymnastics. 

And while I think Bonds' career numbers are inflated, he would be have been HOF without. 

 

And if the HOF doesn't have Bonds and Clemens; it might as well not exist.

[SBTarheel]

Agree with that Seth.  It's mental gymnastics. 

And while I think Bonds' career numbers are inflated, he would be have been HOF without. 

 

And if the HOF doesn't have Bonds and Clemens; it might as well not exist.

Agree with every single word of this. 

 

A Rod too, he was the best player I've ever seen, with respect to Griffey, Bonds, Pujols, and Trout. 

[Mike B]

Agree with that Seth.  It's mental gymnastics. 

And while I think Bonds' career numbers are inflated, he would be have been HOF without. 

 

And if the HOF doesn't have Bonds and Clemens; it might as well not exist.

If one gets in, put them all in.  My thinking is the writers are going to make a mess of this.  I almost feel like they should have a PED class.

Bonds

Clemens

Sosa

Mark Mc.

Palmeiro

All should be considered together.

[SBTarheel]

If one gets in, put them all in.  My thinking is the writers are going to make a mess of this.  I almost feel like they should have a PED class.

Bonds

Clemens

Sosa

Mark Mc.

Palmeiro

All should be considered together.

I've always said if it's so important then just put a note on their plaques...I personally don't think it's necessary to mention it, but if that helps get these guys in, then just do that. 

[Mike B]

I've always said if it's so important then just put a note on their plaques...I personally don't think it's necessary to mention it, but if that helps get these guys in, then just do that. 

I really have come full circle.  My inityial thought was screw them all, but PED's were rampant throughout  MLB.  I get tired of hearing about it every year.  Put the whole group in together.  The speeches would be a must see.

[Mike B]

And if you put Clemens in, he could finally forgive his wife for using all those steroids.

[weird-O]

The fun of the HOF vote, is that it's vague in its parameters of who is eligible. Like everyone else, I agree that Bonds and Clemens are HOFers, even without their obviously enhanced years. But I have absolutely loved watching them be denied for nearly a decade. I hope they don't get in, because they aren't likable people. And since integrity, character and sportsmanship are also factors, it's not unfair to lock them out. Morality is a sliding scale. here's to the scale sliding at a deep enough angle, that both men fall off the ballot forever. Let the Veterans Committee determine their eligibility

[mweb08]

The fun of the HOF vote, is that it's vague in its parameters of who is eligible. Like everyone else, I agree that Bonds and Clemens are HOFers, even without their obviously enhanced years. But I have absolutely loved watching them be denied for nearly a decade. I hope they don't get in, because they aren't likable people. And since integrity, character and sportsmanship are also factors, it's not unfair to lock them out. Morality is a sliding scale. here's to the scale sliding at a deep enough angle, that both men fall off the ballot forever. Let the Veterans Committee determine their eligibility

 

Those factors have not been factors to the voters in the entire history of the voting body. Unless that is you want to consider being petty to players they personally didn't like. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Do we think Clemens and Bonds ultimately get in this year?

[Mackus]

Nope. They'd need a third of the guys that haven't been voting for them to change their minds.

[weird-O]

Those factors have not been factors to the voters in the entire history of the voting body. Unless that is you want to consider being petty to players they personally didn't like. 

Both players were total ass hats. If the writers are snubbing them for that, I love it. You know those guys want in, and it's killing them that they aren't in yet. I think it's poetic justice. 

[You Play to Win the Game]

I realize this isn’t how it works, but if you look at the lost opportunity for Bonds with the over 2,500 career walks he had and taking into account his home run rate, he could’ve had another 150-200 career homers.

[mweb08]

Both players were total ass hats. If the writers are snubbing them for that, I love it. You know those guys want in, and it's killing them that they aren't in yet. I think it's poetic justice.

Then let's rename the Hall of Fame to the Hall of Players the Writer's Liked.

[Mike B]

The writers voting for who they like, has gone on since the original HOF class.  It is not right, especially when some of these writers are every bit the jerks the players they are blocking were, but it is not something new.

[mweb08]

The writers voting for who they like, has gone on since the original HOF class. It is not right, especially when some of these writers are every bit the jerks the players they are blocking were, but it is not something new.

Sure, but ultimately that's played a small role in who gets in and who doesn't. The other point is let's not act like who the writers like is a legitimate part of the character clause, which again, has never played a role in who gets in otherwise until these steroid era candidates hit the ballot.