407 replies to this topic

[Biggsy]

I'm re-thinking the cover-0 play on 4th and 11 after having some time to stew on it, and I actually think it was the correct play to go for a blitz. My reasoning is that a conversion that doesn't score a touchdown is more likely to result in the Bears scoring without giving us the ball back and having a meaningful amount of time on the clock.. The Ravens were only up by 2, and if the Bears got into field goal range with less than a minute left, they would likely either burn all of the Ravens timeouts or they'd just be able to run the clock out. It doesn't really matter whether the Ravens are able to prevent the conversion with a sack or by stopping the ball carrier short of the sticks - if either of those things happens the game is over. If you assume that the chance for a successful stop is the same whether we go with a 2 deep zone and rush 4, or if we blitz, then it makes some amount of sense for us to concede the touchdown on a failed stop with 2 timeouts and 1:45 left.

I think you could argue about whether you'd rather have Huntley go 35 yards in 35 seconds with 0 timeouts, but that scenario would still require another defensive stop for us to get that opportunity. Just conceding the touchdown would put it all in the offense's hands.

I said it in the game thread. I understood the call. 4th and 11, with an inconsistent 4 man rush. You can either send 4 and drop 7 and potentially give Dalton 4+ seconds to find someone. Or you send the house and make him make a quick decision.

The main problem wasn't the playcall. It was once again the execution. You have Brandon Stephens just standing at the LOS in no-mans land, with an open lane to the QB. And he just stands there. Then you have Westry bite hard on a double move and get torched.

Easy to play Monday morning QB with hindsight of the result.

For me, the last two years Wink had the proper personnel, and led 2 top 5 defenses. One of which was one of the highest rated defensive DVOA's ever. I don't think its a coincidence that he has a large dropoff in talent across the board on his defense, and is having issues this season all of a sudden.

[Biggsy]

What makes you confident that it isn't, at least partially, a coaching problem?

Do you think the coaches are just not implementing a game plan, going over the playbook and constantly going over the communication of hot reads and coverage adjustments in practice?!

Coaches can only do so much. Comes down to execution. If Stephens doesn't just stand at the LOS, and had the football IQ and awareness to rush Dalton and either sack him or force a bad throw to end the game, we're not having this conversation. Instead, he did what he did, gave Dalton the time he needed, Westry blew his assignment, and everyone is blaming Wink because two players didn't do what they were paid to do.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

That's assuming the Ravens can get another defensive stop in non-gimme FG range. The Bears were also on the easier side to kick it, so I don't think the difficult conditions that contributed to his first miss apply.

The Bears were kicking into the wind.

[You Play to Win the Game]

It was a terrible play call. Some of you go out of your way to give the benefit of the doubt. Dalton almost scorched us on the same exact call the play before. Then you do it again and this time he doesn’t miss. Dalton isn’t a complete boob. And if you’re going to make that call, you gotta get there. They seldom do. Wink should know better by now.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It was a terrible play call. Some of you go out of your way to give the benefit of the doubt. Dalton almost scorched us on the same exact call the play before. Then you do it again and this time he doesn’t miss. Dalton isn’t a complete boob. And if you’re going to make that call, you gotta get there. They seldom do. Wink should know better by now.

It was too risky and too aggressive. 4th and 11 just play the sticks. Conditions are tough. Make him make a perfect tight window throw. Hell send a 5th guy. You dont have to sit back and only rush 3 or 4. Also as noted, even if they convert the 1st down a FG is far from a given. You have to make that kicker beat you there. Not allow a walk in TD because you gambled. Incredibly lucky to get that win. Shocking Huntley drove them there tbh.

[Ravens2006]

Yeah, on 2nd and 6 the Bears showed a different alignment but at the snap still wound up sending three on what were basically go routes. Dalton overthrew Byrd. In coverage on him? Westry.

On 4th and 6, the Ravens lined up with a single high safety, and 4 DBs matched up in front of 4 wides. 4 up on 4, with a safety in the center of the field to try to read, react, and help.

But, false start...

So on 4th and 11...!?!?!? Wink decides to forego any and all safety help over the top? What the straight hellfire???

And who did Goodwin run past? Westry. Same guy that Byrd ran right past on second down.

[Slidemaster]

Do you think the coaches are just not implementing a game plan, going over the playbook and constantly going over the communication of hot reads and coverage adjustments in practice?!

Coaches can only do so much. Comes down to execution. If Stephens doesn't just stand at the LOS, and had the football IQ and awareness to rush Dalton and either sack him or force a bad throw to end the game, we're not having this conversation. Instead, he did what he did, gave Dalton the time he needed, Westry blew his assignment, and everyone is blaming Wink because two players didn't do what they were paid to do.

Every coach in the NFL is doing their best to coach. They're implementing a game plan, trying to scheme to limit opponents, watching film, and trying to get players ready to play. That doesn't mean they're all doing a good job. Coaches lose their jobs every year because of that.

When large groups of players are showing deficiencies as a unit, it isn't unfair to look at the coaching staff. A player having a problem is one thing. Many players having the same problems is another.

They came in today as the worst defense in the NFL against the pass. Do you believe they have the worst defensive personnel in the NFL? If not, looking at coaching is fair to do.

[cprenegade]

It was too risky and too aggressive. 4th and 11 just play the sticks. Conditions are tough. Make him make a perfect tight window throw. Hell send a 5th guy. You dont have to sit back and only rush 3 or 4. Also as noted, even if they convert the 1st down a FG is far from a given. You have to make that kicker beat you there. Not allow a walk in TD because you gambled. Incredibly lucky to get that win. Shocking Huntley drove them there tbh.

 

Ravens probably don't get that win if the first play after the Dalton TD isn't PI.  It was a legitimate flag, but the Bears defender committed the foul on a play where the throw was offline and overthrown.  Was never going to be caught, might have been picked, and the PI gave the Ravens 25+ yards to start the drive and stop the clock instead of nothing and 2nd down.  The Bears really are about the worst team I have seen all year long.  

[hallas]

Yeah, on 2nd and 6 the Bears showed a different alignment but at the snap still wound up sending three on what were basically go routes. Dalton overthrew Byrd. In coverage on him? Westry.

On 4th and 6, the Ravens lined up with a single high safety, and 4 DBs matched up in front of 4 wides. 4 up on 4, with a safety in the center of the field to try to read, react, and help.

But, false start...

So on 4th and 11...!?!?!? Wink decides to forego any and all safety help over the top? What the straight hellfire???

And who did Goodwin run past? Westry. Same guy that Byrd ran right past on second down.

In the case of Goodwin we don't have a single db that can run with him.

I'd probably argue that single high with 6 in the box is a bit better. That said, if Brandon stephens and chuck Clark are your two choices for deep zone help, I'm not sure how much you're actually helping by sending them out into coverage, because neither of those guys are guys I'd trust with the game on the line. Though in Brandon Stephen's case he did absolutely nothing with his wide open path to the qb, so maybe there was something to that one...

[russsnyder]

Ok, so do you think there is no such thing as a talented guitar player, for example? Only skilled guitar players?

A person's ability to become more skilled is a talent, IMO. Everyone can improve their level of skill at basically anything. But how much and how quickly you can improve is a very individual thing.

Also, I'd argue that most of the things you listed as traits of physical talent are all skills that can be learned and developed. Not height, of course, but coordination, size, and body control are absolutely things that high level athletes train to improve. Larry Fitzgerald was a freak at making ridiculous one-handed catches. But that wasn't just pure talent oozing out of him, he trained incessantly to hone his abilities.

You're absolutely correct.

That's why guys train so hard for the combine. They work on the skills that they are going to be evaluated on.

[ivanbalt]

Ravens probably don't get that win if the first play after the Dalton TD isn't PI.  It was a legitimate flag, but the Bears defender committed the foul on a play where the throw was offline and overthrown.  Was never going to be caught, might have been picked, and the PI gave the Ravens 25+ yards to start the drive and stop the clock instead of nothing and 2nd down.  The Bears really are about the worst team I have seen all year long.  

The play calling for 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1 on that one late drive was mind boggling.  Matt Nagy will be looking for work next year.

[PrimeTime]

It was a terrible play call. Some of you go out of your way to give the benefit of the doubt. Dalton almost scorched us on the same exact call the play before. Then you do it again and this time he doesn’t miss. Dalton isn’t a complete boob. And if you’re going to make that call, you gotta get there. They seldom do. Wink should know better by now.

If Marcus Peters was out there opposite Humphrey, go ahead and run cover 0. You just can't put Chris Westry out there on an island in that situation. Particularly when Westry had gotten burned a couple of times already.

[Mike B]

If Marcus Peters was out there opposite Humphrey, go ahead and run cover 0. You just can't put Chris Westry out there on an island in that situation. Particularly when Westry had gotten burned a couple of times already.

I agree, but it is his default call.  I did not think we played as much cover zero as normal yesterday.   I think the real issue is the personnel we played with yesterday.  The safeties were Stone, Stephens and Clark. neither are a free safety.

Our  corners were Westry and Marlon on the outside and Stephens and Young in the slot.  I am not sure we had any other DB's active.   It may have been a damn if we do, or damn if we don't situation.

[Mike B]

There were some good things, that happened yesterday.

 

1.  Tyus Bowser - played a hell of a game yesterday.  He actually had 3 sacks but one gotten taken away on a phantom hold call against Marlon.  The sack on the last play of the game was a heck of a play.  He not only got home, but was very smart on how he wrapped up Dalton and held on.  He did not risk throwing him down and giving them 15 yards.

2.  Patrick Queen - another good game - he has been good since moving to the Will.

3.  Marlon Humphrey - seemed real solid yesterday.  His tackling was good, and I do not remember him getting burned.

4.  Calais Campbell - not only is he a really good player but a hell of an actor.   I can't believe he got away with that.

5.  Freeman and Murray - I know the YPC were not great but, they ran hard against a heavy box.  Freeman besides hammering through for the game winner also was a good safety net for Huntley, on the flair passes.

6.  Tyler Huntley.  he was not great, and some of the sacks were on him, but he competed the entire game and did enough to win.  He was very clutch on the GW drive.

7.  Sammy Watkins -  he got a lot of heat last week, but he stepped up with the play of the game inside 1 minute left in the game.

 

My suspicion is this latest batch of injuries will eventually doom the Ravens, but if we win the division or make the playoffs, I think we will remember Huntley to Watkins.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Good list Mike. The Campbell thing was funny. It was great to see Bowser's presence felt, and hopefully Queen can keep it up, he's definitely been better. Watkins - that was some sweet redemption. 

 

You didn't mention him, and Huntley is limited as a passer, but I still thought Bateman showed well again yesterday. Was intrigued if he'd get shut down with the opposing team's CB1, but that wasn't the case.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

What did Campbell do?? It wasnt in the highlights and I didnt watch.

[You Play to Win the Game]

What did Campbell do?? It wasnt in the highlights and I didnt watch.

He realized about halfway off of running off the field that he wasn't going to make it, and he'd be tagged as the 12th defender, so he... incredibly awkwardly... fell to the ground "hurt". It was one of the more obvious ones you'll ever see.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He realized about halfway off of running off the field that he wasn't going to make it, and he'd be tagged as the 12th defender, so he... incredibly awkwardly... fell to the ground "hurt". It was one of the more obvious ones you'll ever see.

Heady ball player. By the way the flopping in "football" is getting to be as bad as it is in football.

[Mike B]

Good list Mike. The Campbell thing was funny. It was great to see Bowser's presence felt, and hopefully Queen can keep it up, he's definitely been better. Watkins - that was some sweet redemption. 

 

You didn't mention him, and Huntley is limited as a passer, but I still thought Bateman showed well again yesterday. Was intrigued if he'd get shut down with the opposing team's CB1, but that wasn't the case.

Good point about Bateman.  I think he is going to be a good one.

[Mike B]

He realized about halfway off of running off the field that he wasn't going to make it, and he'd be tagged as the 12th defender, so he... incredibly awkwardly... fell to the ground "hurt". It was one of the more obvious ones you'll ever see.

The funny thing is that it went out on Twitter, as a foot injury, questionable to return.  The Ravens on the bench seemed to be trying not to laugh.

 

The coaches were smart, as they kept him down for a series, which may be enough to avoid a fine.