2525 replies to this topic

[Huddle It Up Films]

Mike- I think you're way under on Bateman's targets. Hollywood had 71 while they were taking it easy with him with a screw in his foot. They're both first rounders, Bateman has more ability as a possession WR and will be isolated as an X. It's wild to even entertain the possibility of... "But if the Ravens don't view Bateman as the "X", and he's playing 4th WR behind Boykin since he's a rookie" 

[Mike in STL]

Do you really think the RBs are going to get 50% more targets than 2020? They only had 47 in 2020 and 51 in 2019. Its not like the Ravens can really utilize screen plays to RBs given that every team mush rushes against Lamar. Also I'm fine with never giving Ricard another pass attempt again to be totally honest.

Also I suspect we are only going 5 deep most games at WR. So the 160-180 targets is going to be for Bateman, Watkins, and whoever steps up for that 5th WR spot. I don't really see a burning need to suit up all of Duvernay, Boykin, and Wallace.

Between not going 7 deep at WR and not throwing to RBs 70 times next season, that's another 40 targets to Bateman, Watkins, or whoever else.

I was thinking something like 180 targets between Brown and Andrews, 140-160 to Bateman/Watkins, 40-60 to Boyle and WR5-6, and 50 to RBs. That adds up to around 430 total pass attempts.

It's possible that Dobbins gets more targets. I also have high expectations of him this year though. He had 23 targets last year and was limited in touches early on. Ingram's 8 targets last year go to him. Edwards had 11, Hill 5. If you add Ingram's 8 to Dobbins that is 31. If you give Dobbins one extra target a game that gets him to 48. Close enough to 50.

 

You might be fine without Ricard seeing a target, but the team probably thinks otherwise. IIRC he caught three straight passes to open the second half of the TEN playoff game. He had 12 targets in the regular season last year, I'm saying five. 

 

They might only go five deep at WR a game. But those five can change. 15 people were targeted in the passing game last year. 6 WRs, 4 TEs, 4 RBs, and Ricard. I listed 12 by name, and allowed for some random guys to step in if there are injuries and get the bare minimum targets. 

 

All in all, you're saying 430 targets, I'm saying 425. Practically the same amount, right? Just a matter of who is getting them. 

[Mike in STL]

Mike- I think you're way under on Bateman's targets. Hollywood had 71 while they were taking it easy with him with a screw in his foot. They're both first rounders, Bateman has more ability as a possession WR and will be isolated as an X. It's wild to even entertain the possibility of... "But if the Ravens don't view Bateman as the "X", and he's playing 4th WR behind Boykin since he's a rookie" 

I don't think they they were handling Brown with kid gloves when he went for two deep bombs in his debut, then 12 more targets in week 2. Brown was on the radar at that point. Then the Ravens also realized how well they can run the ball and did so at a historical level, lowering targets for everyone.

 

I like Bateman. A lot. But he also hasn't played a down of NFL football yet, and will still have to earn his spot on this team. 60 targets is a very reasonable prediction given Brown's chemistry with Jackson, Jackson leans on Andrews quite a bit, veteran presence in Watkins, and as I alluded to to hallas, I wouldn't be surprised if they want to try to get the ball in Dobbins hand's more.

 

It's a more favorable receiving group Bateman is coming into than the one that was here when Brown was drafted where he was pretty much a starter on draft night. 

 

It was pretty clear after a couple games last year that Dobbins was a faster, better back than Ingram, but they kept feeding Ingram in the early going, maybe to keep their rookie fresh for the stretch run. Same could happen to Bateman. Maybe they'll want to give Boykin every chance to be a contributor early on. Boykin the X, Brown the Z, Watkins the slot. Especially on running downs where Boykin's blocking ability comes into play. On passing downs Bateman comes in for Boykin. After the week 8 bye week, Boykin could be phased out. Maybe he's a trade candidate before that, but would need to be showcased leading up to the deadline. But this is still a team with Boyle back that will use plenty of 2 TE sets. Which in all likelihood means Bateman is competing with Watkins for those reps. Assuming Brown and a RB are the other receivers out there.

 

How many targets do you see Bateman getting as a rookie? 

[hallas]

It's possible that Dobbins gets more targets. I also have high expectations of him this year though. He had 23 targets last year and was limited in touches early on. Ingram's 8 targets last year go to him. Edwards had 11, Hill 5. If you add Ingram's 8 to Dobbins that is 31. If you give Dobbins one extra target a game that gets him to 48. Close enough to 50.

You might be fine without Ricard seeing a target, but the team probably thinks otherwise. IIRC he caught three straight passes to open the second half of the TEN playoff game. He had 12 targets in the regular season last year, I'm saying five.

They might only go five deep at WR a game. But those five can change. 15 people were targeted in the passing game last year. 6 WRs, 4 TEs, 4 RBs, and Ricard. I listed 12 by name, and allowed for some random guys to step in if there are injuries and get the bare minimum targets.

All in all, you're saying 430 targets, I'm saying 425. Practically the same amount, right? Just a matter of who is getting them.

Sure, roughly the same number. We could go up to 450 attempts. We had 440 in 2019. I'd be fairly surprised if we go over that number by a significant amount. And I don't think we need to, that's a good number to get our best receivers involved while remaining a run-first team.

Regardless, we clearly aren't keeping all of Brown, Bateman, Wallace, Boykin, Watkins, Duvernay, and Proche in rotation.

[Huddle It Up Films]

I don't think they they were handling Brown with kid gloves when he went for two deep bombs in his debut, then 12 more targets in week 2. Brown was on the radar at that point. Then the Ravens also realized how well they can run the ball and did so at a historical level, lowering targets for everyone.

 

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure I remember Hollywood checking out early in the blowout wins.

 

He played 51% of the offensive snaps in 2019 and 78% last year. Granted he played one fewer game in 2019 so the percentage is skewed some. But without digging any further into the numbers, safe to say his snaps per game went up last year.

[Huddle It Up Films]

I don't think they they were handling Brown with kid gloves when he went for two deep bombs in his debut, then 12 more targets in week 2. Brown was on the radar at that point. Then the Ravens also realized how well they can run the ball and did so at a historical level, lowering targets for everyone.

 

I like Bateman. A lot. But he also hasn't played a down of NFL football yet, and will still have to earn his spot on this team. 60 targets is a very reasonable prediction given Brown's chemistry with Jackson, Jackson leans on Andrews quite a bit, veteran presence in Watkins, and as I alluded to to hallas, I wouldn't be surprised if they want to try to get the ball in Dobbins hand's more.

 

It's a more favorable receiving group Bateman is coming into than the one that was here when Brown was drafted where he was pretty much a starter on draft night. 

 

It was pretty clear after a couple games last year that Dobbins was a faster, better back than Ingram, but they kept feeding Ingram in the early going, maybe to keep their rookie fresh for the stretch run. Same could happen to Bateman. Maybe they'll want to give Boykin every chance to be a contributor early on. Boykin the X, Brown the Z, Watkins the slot. Especially on running downs where Boykin's blocking ability comes into play. On passing downs Bateman comes in for Boykin. After the week 8 bye week, Boykin could be phased out. Maybe he's a trade candidate before that, but would need to be showcased leading up to the deadline. But this is still a team with Boyle back that will use plenty of 2 TE sets. Which in all likelihood means Bateman is competing with Watkins for those reps. Assuming Brown and a RB are the other receivers out there.

 

How many targets do you see Bateman getting as a rookie? 

 

The bolded is a really good point. Hollywood stepped onto a team with no other Z WR. He was the only guy with that skillset for sure.

 

The Boykin part is where I think we break in our lines of thinking. If they ease Bateman in, imo Watkins would be the X. They've done everything possible to faze Boykin out of being on the boundary since acquiring Dez. Even with our coaching staff making rookies earn it, I think Boykin officially lost their confidence at X. (You may have heard me say this before but Boykin's best chance to succeed is vs LBs and Safeties). He's too easy for NFL corners to guard. Boykin would be a candidate for some slot, receiving TE type duties if Sammy goes down.

 

My best guess is that Bateman's targets will be heavily affected by Sammy's health. But even if Sammy's healthy all year I think he gets around 80. I'm doing an Oweh cutup video now but you got me wanting to sketch this out like you did. I'll be back on the board before too long. Love ya brother!

[cprenegade]

I did get a bit of a chuckle out of the Sun using the term "splurge".  They used their first round pick on Bateman, and I think it is a good pick.  Guy has all the tools to make an immediate impact.  If he doesn't, I think it is time to start looking at the Raven's development process on WRs as more of the problem than the drafting process.  Then they used a later draft pick on a guy who injured the same knee two years in a row, and signed an average at best FA who is now on his 4th team in 8 years.  They addressed the position, but I hardly would call that splurging.  If so, I guess if I buy a Ford Focus I can say I splurged and got a luxury car!

[hallas]

I did get a bit of a chuckle out of the Sun using the term "splurge". They used their first round pick on Bateman, and I think it is a good pick. Guy has all the tools to make an immediate impact. If he doesn't, I think it is time to start looking at the Raven's development process on WRs as more of the problem than the drafting process. Then they used a later draft pick on a guy who injured the same knee two years in a row, and signed an average at best FA who is now on his 4th team in 8 years. They addressed the position, but I hardly would call that splurging. If so, I guess if I buy a Ford Focus I can say I splurged and got a luxury car!

Hey, don't lump all Focuses together, a Focus RS is a legit sports car 😆😛

[hallas]

I don't think they they were handling Brown with kid gloves when he went for two deep bombs in his debut, then 12 more targets in week 2. Brown was on the radar at that point. Then the Ravens also realized how well they can run the ball and did so at a historical level, lowering targets for everyone.

I like Bateman. A lot. But he also hasn't played a down of NFL football yet, and will still have to earn his spot on this team. 60 targets is a very reasonable prediction given Brown's chemistry with Jackson, Jackson leans on Andrews quite a bit, veteran presence in Watkins, and as I alluded to to hallas, I wouldn't be surprised if they want to try to get the ball in Dobbins hand's more.

It's a more favorable receiving group Bateman is coming into than the one that was here when Brown was drafted where he was pretty much a starter on draft night.

It was pretty clear after a couple games last year that Dobbins was a faster, better back than Ingram, but they kept feeding Ingram in the early going, maybe to keep their rookie fresh for the stretch run. Same could happen to Bateman. Maybe they'll want to give Boykin every chance to be a contributor early on. Boykin the X, Brown the Z, Watkins the slot. Especially on running downs where Boykin's blocking ability comes into play. On passing downs Bateman comes in for Boykin. After the week 8 bye week, Boykin could be phased out. Maybe he's a trade candidate before that, but would need to be showcased leading up to the deadline. But this is still a team with Boyle back that will use plenty of 2 TE sets. Which in all likelihood means Bateman is competing with Watkins for those reps. Assuming Brown and a RB are the other receivers out there.

How many targets do you see Bateman getting as a rookie?

On the topic of passes to Dobbins, at least to me he is a bit of an unproven player as a receiver, and he seemed to have butterfingers at times last year. Even if they let him catch the short pass to the flat more often, I don't really see them throwing it to an RB 20 more times than they did in 2019, when they had a proven pass catching RB. I think Ingram's 2019 numbers are more or less his ceiling.

I think, assuming both stay healthy, Watkins and Bateman will both be around 70 targets.

[NewMarketSean]

I wasn't worried about his passing when he was throwing 36 TDs, only 6 picks and completing 66% of his passes in 2019, not worried now. Especially considering he did that with mostly the same receiving corps he had last year.  Last season was an unusual season for a lot of reasons already stated by St. Steveg. I'm more concerned about O line gelling than I am about Jackson. I'm convinced that they've made all the right moves to improve on last season.

He still completed 64 percent of his passes last year despite having a “down” year as a passer. 
 

He hasn’t much talent in the receiving game. Lots of drops and poor routes. If the run game is still elite I expect Lamar to have some big years ahead of him...maybe not as big as his 2019 season but improvement as a passer and more effective. 

[Bmore Irish]

Regardless of what the offense looks like to begin the season, I expect there to be some early growing pains. Four out of five positions on the OL have a new starter, and about half the WR group is new to the team with two of them probably expected to be major contributors.

 

For that reason, I think we'll see more of the same on offense for at least the first few weeks. They usually keep it pretty vanilla to begin anyway, but that's probably a necessity this year. The benefit of having a full off-season is going to be somewhat negated by having so many starters learning a new playbook.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Balt Sun: The best matchups on the Ravens’ 2021 schedule: Stanley vs. Bosa, Humphrey vs. Chase, and more

[PrimeTime]

Regardless of what the offense looks like to begin the season, I expect there to be some early growing pains. Four out of five positions on the OL have a new starter, and about half the WR group is new to the team with two of them probably expected to be major contributors.

 

For that reason, I think we'll see more of the same on offense for at least the first few weeks. They usually keep it pretty vanilla to begin anyway, but that's probably a necessity this year. The benefit of having a full off-season is going to be somewhat negated by having so many starters learning a new playbook.

 

Offensive line cohesion will be the biggest thing to watch throughout the summer and in the beginning of the season. Hopefully, Stanley's ankle is ready to go as he could be the only one in the same position as last year. 

 

There's a lot of buzz around Ben Cleveland and he's definitely a giant but it remains to be seen whether he will be the week 1 starter at LG. There are some concerns about his footwork and how will that play into the way we like to move linemen around and what not. 

[bmore_ken]

He still completed 64 percent of his passes last year despite having a “down” year as a passer. 
 

He hasn’t much talent in the receiving game. Lots of drops and poor routes. If the run game is still elite I expect Lamar to have some big years ahead of him...maybe not as big as his 2019 season but improvement as a passer and more effective. 

It's funny. I still remember people here posting he was inaccurate in college and that wouldn't change. 

[makoman]

It's funny. I still remember people here posting he was inaccurate in college and that wouldn't change.

I’m surprised he ever scores at all as often as the goalposts are moved when some people talk about him.

[JordanKough]

I’m surprised he ever scores at all as often as the goalposts are moved when some people talk about him.

 

What do you expect, the RB position has been really devalued . 

[Huddle It Up Films]

Offensive line cohesion will be the biggest thing to watch throughout the summer and in the beginning of the season. Hopefully, Stanley's ankle is ready to go as he could be the only one in the same position as last year. 

 

There's a lot of buzz around Ben Cleveland and he's definitely a giant but it remains to be seen whether he will be the week 1 starter at LG. There are some concerns about his footwork and how will that play into the way we like to move linemen around and what not. 

 

Oline cohesion is definitely always a concern. Hopefully having set starters will help this year. I didn't like all the shuffling that took place last year or the changes that should've been made with Skura & Phillips.

 

I'm more optimistic this year because it's a veteran group with spots that seem set. LG is, I guess, still a question mark. But if Cleveland steps in he'll be surrounded by Stanley and Bozeman. Zeitler & AV should communicate and work well together. With a normal training camp, I'm hoping they will gel quickly.

[Huddle It Up Films]

Early target prediction...

 

Lamar attempted 401 in 2019, 376 in 2020. I think the offense opens up, plus there's one extra game. I'll put him at 450 attempts.

 

Hollywood- 71(2019), 100(2020). I think his role lessons a hair but we throw more and will give him an even 100 targets again.

Andrews- 98(2019), 88(2020). His place and comfort with LJ is set. Having an X should open up more space for him. I'll give him a Lamar like bump up and put his number at 110.

RBs- 51(2019), 50(2020). Took these numbers from Ingram, Gus, Hill & JK. I'll add in a few from Ricard and give them a slight bump to 60.

Watkins- He's the wildcard because of health. I'll say 12 games, 5 targets per and settle on 60.

Bateman- Talked about him above and will stick with 80 (more if Sammy misses more time)

 

That would leave 40 targets open for the rest of the guys. Obviously these are round numbers and I didn't put a ton of thought in it but this is my best, quick guess.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Sad news here, Jelly Roll needs a kidney. https://www.baltimor...-needs-a-kidney

[Mike B]

Offensive line cohesion will be the biggest thing to watch throughout the summer and in the beginning of the season. Hopefully, Stanley's ankle is ready to go as he could be the only one in the same position as last year. 

 

There's a lot of buzz around Ben Cleveland and he's definitely a giant but it remains to be seen whether he will be the week 1 starter at LG. There are some concerns about his footwork and how will that play into the way we like to move linemen around and what not. 

I think they have talent, but it will be interesting to see who steps up and as you said, how long it takes to see them work as one.

 

I would not be surprised to see another vet swing tackle, unless they feel like Phillips or Andre Smith is that guy.  Actually, Villanueva is the swing guy, but we need better back up options for RT should Stanley is not ready early in the season.