600 replies to this topic

[BSLChrisStoner]

IDK. With RGIII under center I don't feel too confident beating anyone. My guess is Lamar practices tomorrow and they try to win the game with a lot of ground game from the RBs. But you need Lamar's run and pass ability to gain an advantage on the ground and RGIII  offers none of that.

I think RG3 hasn't looked particularly great in relief of games, which is partly him, and partly because the Ravens have throttled way down at that point.  I think he looked good in the prior preseason games (obviously not this year) and I think he still has something left.  Not Jackson clearly, but good enough to win with (especially this surrounding cast, against the Bengals). 

You don't want to lose against Cincinnati, and no Jackson would make that a possibility... but I still think you win, and the larger point is the Raven can't win anything that matters if Jackson isn't available and right.  So I'm giving him the week off if that increases the chances of him being right going forward.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I'm with Stoner. Something's been up with Jackson all season, and it doesn't seem to be getting better, it seems to be getting worse. They've been smart to cover this up as much as they can. However, this team is NOT coming anywhere close to winning a Super Bowl if he's down, so they need to proceed accordingly. 

[Mike in STL]

IDK. With RGIII under center I don't feel too confident beating anyone. My guess is Lamar practices tomorrow and they try to win the game with a lot of ground game from the RBs. But you need Lamar's run and pass ability to gain an advantage on the ground and RGIII offers none of that.

They won with him, and other backups in week 17 last year when the Steelers still had playoff opportunity. But I don’t know. I see an L this time around if it comes down RG3. Sounds like they are downplaying the injury to Lamar and playing it safe by keeping him out. Seems like the smart decision and RG3 gets the reps in this week to tune up that he wouldn’t have gotten otherwise.

[Mike in STL]

I'm with Stoner. Something's been up with Jackson all season, and it doesn't seem to be getting better, it seems to be getting worse. They've been smart to cover this up as much as they can. However, this team is NOT coming anywhere close to winning a Super Bowl if he's down, so they need to proceed accordingly.

What’s been up with him? He looked like the same guy from last year when he outran everyone on a 50 yard TD run.

I think when he sat out some days in camp it was a groin, not his knee. So those don’t seem related.

[Mackus]

I don't sit the QB if he's healthy enough to play.

If he's too hurt to go, then it's RG3. Otherwise it's Lamar. If it's bad and you're worried about making it worse, then he's too hurt to play. But I don't think that is a very large chunk amongst the possible scenarios.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

What’s been up with him? He looked like the same guy from last year when he outran everyone on a 50 yard TD run.

I think when he sat out some days in camp it was a groin, not his knee. So those don’t seem related.

His speed is still evident. I don't think he's cutting and breaking ankles the way he did all of last year. Anyway, I think we'd still be favorites with RG3 this week. Maholmes missed 2 or 3 games last year and stepped right back in and played well. Im not opposed to RG3 starting this week if its something where the Ravens are convinced Lamar would be 100% in a week or two. If its something thats going to linger or could be easily reggravated then just play Lamar at 75 or 80 % this week.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I don't sit the QB if he's healthy enough to play.

If he's too hurt to go, then it's RG3. Otherwise it's Lamar. If it's bad and you're worried about making it worse, then he's too hurt to play. But I don't think that is a very large chunk amongst the possible scenarios.

So future risk of increasing the severity of the injury isn't a factor as well as ability to currently play through it? I feel strongly it should be. 

 

And what does healthy enough to play mean? If he's 80% of himself? 60% of himself? If whatever % of himself he is, is better than RG3? What factors determine this?

 

To me, and to address Randall's questions - He definitely still seems to have the speed, but not the burst/acceleration and the cuts. I also think a groin injury, and over compensating for that, could easily be related to hurting a knee by putting too much pressure on it, or relying on it in a way he normally doesn't. 

 

In the end, this is mostly entirely speculation - and what do I know really? But I'm thinking he's not fully healthy and there's some risk there and we should get him right.

[Mackus]

So future risk of increasing the severity of the injury isn't a factor as well as ability to currently play through it? I feel strongly it should be.

I said it is. But I also said that I don't think that's a very probable possibility. I think slowing the healing process is likely but not it becoming a more severe injury just from playing. If it slows him down and he takes a big hit because he isn't as elusive, maybe that's a concern. But for the most part I'm thinking it'll be a pretty clear decision based entirely on if he's capable of playing.

[cprenegade]

Game is off the board at some spots in Vegas.  That means their is enough doubt that he will play to take it down.  Personally I think even if he plays the Bengals might cover the spread with back door garbage points.  I don't know if I trust RGIII, but seriously if the Ravens don't then why is he on the roster?  If they don't trust him enough to beat last year's worst team, with a rookie QB, at home, then why even have him.  If Jackson plays and takes a shot on that knee and is out for multiple weeks, it's much worse than risking a bit of a tougher game against a team you should beat.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I said it is. But I also said that I don't think that's a very probable possibility. I think slowing the healing process is likely but not it becoming a more severe injury just from playing. If it slows him down and he takes a big hit because he isn't as elusive, maybe that's a concern. But for the most part I'm thinking it'll be a pretty clear decision based entirely on if he's capable of playing.

My bad man, don't know how I missed that. Totally fair.

[Mike B]

Game is off the board at some spots in Vegas.  That means their is enough doubt that he will play to take it down.  Personally I think even if he plays the Bengals might cover the spread with back door garbage points.  I don't know if I trust RGIII, but seriously if the Ravens don't then why is he on the roster?  If they don't trust him enough to beat last year's worst team, with a rookie QB, at home, then why even have him.  If Jackson plays and takes a shot on that knee and is out for multiple weeks, it's much worse than risking a bit of a tougher game against a team you should beat.

A lot of good points, not sure home field matters though

[BSLChrisStoner]

Balt Sun: Ravens vs. Bengals scouting report for Week 5: Who has the edge?

[Biggsy]

A lot of speculation on Lamar going on in here. I trust our training staff and coaches. We're not Washington. We're not going to risk our future at QB for one game. I think they're just being cautious. I dont think you see as many planned runs for him. I expect a lot of quicker passes as well. They may actually go more traditional with their game plan with a lot less read option and pistol formation, and a lot more traditional sets and play calls.

[You Play to Win the Game]

He just hasn't looked the same to me. I'm surprised more people don't see it. 

[Mike B]

Lamar is back at practice today.

[85Knight]

He just hasn't looked the same to me. I'm surprised more people don't see it.

I agree with you. Something's lingering but we won't know unless it gets worse. We know Lamar will never use it as an excuse.

[Mike B]

I agree with you. Something's lingering but we won't know unless it gets worse. We know Lamar will never use it as an excuse.

i think it is a combination of things.  Mostly small stuff, that ads up

 

Adjustments from the opposition.

Offensive line issues.

Running back uncertainty.  We need to feature one main back and maybe a passing down back.

Nagging ailments for Lamar.

 

I think it is getting figured out and the explosion on offense is coming.

[JordanKough]

With the run against the WFT, it's definitely more defenses than Lamar. He doesn't look a step slow after re-watching games. In games, it's frustrating because the Ravens haven't been able to isolate him to showcase those wow plays, but the defense is there for a reason...

 

Ravens need to ID that over committing to slowing down Lamar's legs and find ways to wow in the passing game. We've seen it from Andrews but not anyone else. If another WR really steps up (could literally be any of them) or the Ravens find a way to effectively use them, look out. 

[Biggsy]

With the run against the WFT, it's definitely more defenses than Lamar. He doesn't look a step slow after re-watching games. In games, it's frustrating because the Ravens haven't been able to isolate him to showcase those wow plays, but the defense is there for a reason...

Ravens need to ID that over committing to slowing down Lamar's legs and find ways to wow in the passing game. We've seen it from Andrews but not anyone else. If another WR really steps up (could literally be any of them) or the Ravens find a way to effectively use them, look out.

Honestly, with the read option, teams are just clogging the middle to take away the Ingram/Edwards option and their keying on beating Lamar to the edge.

Someone said in another post that maybe they should add a couple passes off of that same action. I think thats certainly a really good idea. That becomes a timing thing. If anything slows the initial fakes up, the pass is pretty much not an option because lineman will be too far up field.

But they certainly need to add some wrinkles to it. Play action. PROPERLY run screens. counter sweeps. Shovel passes.

I also think dropping Lamar back in more traditional sets vs the pistol or shotgun.


I do agree with Ricker. I think his groin was more of an issue the first two weeks than we were getting told. I know from my personal experiences, when I pulled a groin it never bothered me to open up and run in a straight line. But as soon as I tried to change direction or plant, it hurt like hell. Thats what you didn't see with Lamar a lot. The start and stop moves, and the side to side agility.

[GabeFerguson]

They did this in last week's game. The long completion to Hollywood after the fumble recovery was this exact thing. They have tried it a couple of times with mixed results, but there are clearly some plays downfield to be had. 

Honestly, with the read option, teams are just clogging the middle to take away the Ingram/Edwards option and their keying on beating Lamar to the edge.

Someone said in another post that maybe they should add a couple passes off of that same action. I think thats certainly a really good idea. That becomes a timing thing. If anything slows the initial fakes up, the pass is pretty much not an option because lineman will be too far up field.