104 replies to this topic

[weird-O]

Maybe someone can confirm or dismiss this for me. I thought I remember hearing that Cal did those marathon autograph sessions, because he wanted to flood the market so much, that his signature could be reduced to only having sentimental value to the people (mostly directed at children) who stood in line. 

[SportsGuy]

Maybe someone can confirm or dismiss this for me. I thought I remember hearing that Cal did those marathon autograph sessions, because he wanted to flood the market so much, that his signature could be reduced to only having sentimental value to the people (mostly directed at children) who stood in line.

I never heard that theory and given my obsession back in the day, I would have.

[SportsGuy]

Thinking about this in a different way, Cal wouldn't be quite as desirable if you were doing a draft while imagining the players playing right now, because you wouldn't get the benefit of as many opposing teams sacrificing offense at the position.

Those desirable SS of today may have never gotten that chance without Ripken to begin with.

[SportsGuy]

Cal was worth 70 WAR by the time he was done his age 39 season...over 50 of that was oWAR.

He could have retired then and been a HOFer.

He had a stretch of 8 out of 9 seasons with a 5.5 WAR or better. That stretch included 2 MVPs, another 10 WAR season and 3 other seasons of a 6.6 WAR or better.

Hard to find players not named Trout giving you that consistent level of production right now.

[mweb08]

Those desirable SS of today may have never gotten that chance without Ripken to begin with.

Possibly. Now a lot of other organizations probably would have kept him at third though, where his value wouldn't be nearly as great.

[SportsGuy]

Possibly. Now a lot of other organizations probably would have kept him at third though, where his value wouldn't be nearly as great.

Yea probably...but that’s not really relevant since it didn’t happen.

[mweb08]

Yea probably...but that’s not really relevant since it didn’t happen.

It's relevant to the specific comment you made. You were giving Cal that credit when the organization should probably get more of it.

[Russ]

Earl made that decision.  Cal was playing 3rd at Rochester and the front office even traded DeCinces for Cal.

[RShack]

Earl made that decision.

 

 There were only 3 guys in the org who thought Cal could play SS... and 2 of them were named Ripken...

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Cal was worth 70 WAR by the time he was done his age 39 season...over 50 of that was oWAR.

He could have retired then and been a HOFer.

He had a stretch of 8 out of 9 seasons with a 5.5 WAR or better. That stretch included 2 MVPs, another 10 WAR season and 3 other seasons of a 6.6 WAR or better.

Hard to find players not named Trout giving you that consistent level of production right now.

Yeah, as I said, his age 21-30 seasons stack up incredibly well. I really think a lot of people here never saw the Cal that was a great offensive ballplayer. If you're 40 or younger, other than maybe '91, you only really know the mediocre offensive player. That was the basis of my thoughts on him before I really dug into the numbers.


Also, if we're playing the what if game. I'll never say a player never juiced but I think Cal was one of the more unlikely ones to do it. Especially to the extent McGwire,Canseco, Bonds, etc did. If he had juiced to that extent in his 30s he may have turned a lot of those mediocre offensive years into above average years.

[Russ]

Yeah, as I said, his age 21-30 seasons stack up incredibly well. I really think a lot of people here never saw the Cal that was a great offensive ballplayer. If you're 40 or younger, other than maybe '91, you only really know the mediocre offensive player. That was the basis of my thoughts on him before I really dug into the numbers.


Also, if we're playing the what if game. I'll never say a player never juiced but I think Cal was one of the more unlikely ones to do it. Especially to the extent McGwire,Canseco, Bonds, etc did. If he had juiced to that extent in his 30s he may have turned a lot of those mediocre offensive years into above average years.

He played 2632 consecutive games and you don’t think he juiced?

[SportsGuy]

It's relevant to the specific comment you made. You were giving Cal that credit when the organization should probably get more of it.

They put him there and he made them keep them there.

If he struggles, he goes back to third and perhaps none of those bigger SS ever come to fruition.

He changed that position.

[RShack]

They put him there and he made them keep them there.

If he struggles, he goes back to third and perhaps none of those bigger SS ever come to fruition.

He changed that position.

 

Brooks changed 3B and Cal changed SS... there's lots of baseball things to argue about, but these two are not among them...

[TwentyThirtyFive]

He played 2632 consecutive games and you don’t think he juiced?

I won't pretend to know what he did or didnt do to aide his health and recovery. I doubt he was going to the lengths a lot of others were going to be better offensive players.

[Mackus]

He played 2632 consecutive games and you don’t think he juiced?

You think steroids and hGH make you more durable?

[Russ]

You think steroids and hGH make you more durable?

HGH does. Hell yeah.

[SportsGuy]

You think steroids and hGH make you more durable?

They help you bounce back quicker.

That being said, the offense wasn’t there and his body didn’t change.

I tend to doubt he took PEDs

And btw, it wasn’t illegal for him to take things at that time...not saying it would be right if he did but it would be similar to Aaron and Mays taking greenies.

[RShack]

They help you bounce back quicker.

That being said, the offense wasn’t there and his body didn’t change.

I tend to doubt he took PEDs

 

His O changed big-time... that one year.... almost Brady-like...

[Russ]

They help you bounce back quicker.

That being said, the offense wasn’t there and his body didn’t change.

I tend to doubt he took PEDs

And btw, it wasn’t illegal for him to take things at that time...not saying it would be right if he did but it would be similar to Aaron and Mays taking greenies.

There are plenty of admitted steroid users whose bodies didn’t change and didn’t have an offensive explosion.

[Russ]

I actually think he’s foolish if he didn’t take anything. But I can’t imagine any of the stars of that era not getting some help.