98 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

Btw you guys want another hot take that maybe youll be able to dig up in a few years and get me on. I wish we would've traded Cowser to Mil over Ortiz. Maybe wouldnt have had to give up the comp draft pick if we had. Ortiz will have the better big league career unless his concussion history continues to pop up. Thats the only way I see Cowser having much of any chance to have the better career

I'm cool with the Ortiz > Cowser take. However, while the O's could use Ortiz now at 2B because of the shocking ineptitude Holliday displayed in his first go around, this would still create the need for additional choices to be made like trading someone else, moving Westy and/or Mayo to the outfield, and/or something no one discussed to my knowledge until recently: move Holliday to CF.

[BobPhelan]

16 BB/20 Ks. .384 OBP. Could use this type of eye and contact rate in this lineup right now. I know we all expect Holliday to eventually do similar things but damn could this lineup use him now

I feel like I love Ortiz as much or more than anyone but to be fair the walks are a new development. Never struck out a lot but was prone to chasing.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

You can move anyone to a corner OF. I mean not everyone but a lot of guys. Ortiz is an up the middle defender and a good one at that. I wouldve lived with figuring out the 3 best guys at 2b, 3b, and SS and moving whoever I needed to move to OF. We talked about potentially moving Holliday to CF I would put money on Gunnar being a good CF if he had to make the move. Seeing him track that ball from behind 2b to LF the other night told me a lot about his jumps and tracking ability. The sprint speed is good. All irrelevant at this point.

[Mackus]

Btw you guys want another hot take that maybe youll be able to dig up in a few years and get me on. I wish we would've traded Cowser to Mil over Ortiz. Maybe wouldnt have had to give up the comp draft pick if we had. Ortiz will have the better big league career unless his concussion history continues to pop up. Thats the only way I see Cowser having much of any chance to have the better career

I think Ortiz could put up more WAR as a slick fielding SS, but I think Cowser ends up the better hitter.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I think Ortiz could put up more WAR as a slick fielding SS, but I think Cowser ends up the better hitter.

Id prob take Ortiz as the better offensive player too at this point. I think he will be .750-.800 in his prime.

[mweb08]

You can move anyone to a corner OF. I mean not everyone but a lot of guys. Ortiz is an up the middle defender and a good one at that. I wouldve lived with figuring out the 3 best guys at 2b, 3b, and SS and moving whoever I needed to move to OF. We talked about potentially moving Holliday to CF I would put money on Gunnar being a good CF if he had to make the move. Seeing him track that ball from behind 2b to LF the other night told me a lot about his jumps and tracking ability. The sprint speed is good. All irrelevant at this point.

You can't move anyone to Baltimore's LF.

But sure, there were options to move guys to the outfield, but those were hardly discussed back then other than with Mayo.

Also, it's not irrelevant now. Someone is still being moved out of the infield if everyone is kept. Perhaps that defaults to Mayo, we'll see.

Plus there's Norby, who doesn't deserve as much consideration for carving out a major league role, but deserves some.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

If it werent for our injuries at SP  I'd happily reverse the Ortiz trade right now. Wouldn't think twice about it. The perfect example why teams value young cost controlled talent so highly and why it can be hard to match up on deals. As great as Burnes as been this year its 1 yr. And we aren't even bringing in the team control of Hall and the comp pick

[BSLSteveBirrer]

If it werent for our injuries at SP  I'd happily reverse the Ortiz trade right now. Wouldn't think twice about it. The perfect example why teams value young cost controlled talent so highly and why it can be hard to match up on deals. As great as Burnes as been this year its 1 yr. And we aren't even bringing in the team control of Hall and the comp pick

Sure Ortiz is good. But we have a logjam of young players as is and you'd add him back into the mix and send back our best starter who also happens to be healthy. Gotcha.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Without all the injuries absolutely. Ortiz will pass the WAR Burnes gives us next year. Hell its possible he puts up more WAR this year. I get that we have other talented prospects and I understand what Burnes brings the '24 team but Ortiz is a stone cold stud. You keep studs that are team controlled for 5+ years

[BaltBird 24]

It'll hurt way less if they can somehow manage to re-sign Burnes.

I don't care how often Rubenstein is walking around the stadium throwing high 5's to the fans or sitting in the splash zone. This offseason will be the first test of him as an owner.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

They cant give Burnes what he will get. Its going to be too much and too long. Was always a 1 yr deal.

[BaltBird 24]

They can certainly give him what he will get. The only question is - with how pitchers are dropping like flies - will it be smart? I'd be weary of any long-term deal for a 30 year old pitcher.

Either way - they'll be spending money on pitching this offseason.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The one thing PA was way ahead of his time about was not going more than 3 or 4 years for a pitcher. I wouldn't do it for anyone at any age. Let alone someone who is late 20s or 30s and has milage on their arm.  Burnes is going to get 5 years minimum. And I feel like Im saying 5 just to be safe. Will likely be 6 or 7. Its irresponsible to give that contract out to a FA.

[BaltBird 24]

Don't feel like building a rotation around trade rentals is a great idea and a good way to deplete your farm system quick. At some point you'll have to bite that bullet. A lot of young, promising arms coming up but they are still 2-3 years away. Next year we're looking at Grayson, Kremer, and a bunch of unknowns or suspect arms like Irvin, Povich, McDermott, Saurez.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Without all the injuries absolutely. Ortiz will pass the WAR Burnes gives us next year. Hell its possible he puts up more WAR this year. I get that we have other talented prospects and I understand what Burnes brings the '24 team but Ortiz is a stone cold stud. You keep studs that are team controlled for 5+ years

Ok then who are you not keeping?

Henderson, Westburg, Mayo, and/or Norby? Cause they all have long term control and could be every bit the player Ortiz might be. Easy to say just keep them all. Ok but your pitching has to come from somewhere.

[BaltBird 24]

Ortiz will most likely be more valuable than Norby, but he's likely an odd man out here, too

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Ortiz is a stud. You find a way to make it work with studs. Hes an awesome defender too. I can assure you he wouldnt be the one moving off of 2b,SS, or 3b.

[dude]

It'll hurt way less if they can somehow manage to re-sign Burnes.

I don't care how often Rubenstein is walking around the stadium throwing high 5's to the fans or sitting in the splash zone. This offseason will be the first test of him as an owner.

 

Burnes has to decide he wants to be an Oriole.  He picked Boras and Boras wants to set the new pitching contract record.  He had it with Cole (324M) and Yammamoto actually took a lesser deal from LAD (12/325) versus NY (10/300) to get to LA and set the new record.

 

The number for Burnes is 330-350M.  That's going to be what Boras requires, at least the start....and even if you offer it, you're probably just the marker to get an LA or NY team to 375M.

 

Like Burnes a lot, he can do whatever he wants, including dumping his agent and sticking around.  Same for GRod.  Same for Gunnar.

[BSLRoseKatz]

Unless Jackson Holliday has a significantly worse career than Ortiz I won't lose a wink of sleep over trading him and even if he does it's still a trade that has pretty directly contributed to (presumably) making the playoffs and who knows what beyond that