HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:57 AM
Agree. If you get caught grabbing someone's tits while they are asleep I think you should resign from Congress. I can't believe anybody disagrees with that.
It's not like Congress will stop functioning if one dude resigns. What's the argument for letting him keep his job?
The fact that the rebuttal is that a lot of elected officials would have to step down, is pretty sad too. What does that say about our states leaders?
CFB Analyst
Posted 21 November 2017 - 11:58 AM
Agree. If you get caught grabbing someone's tits while they are asleep I think you should resign from Congress. I can't believe anybody disagrees with that.
It's not like Congress will stop functioning if one dude resigns. What's the argument for letting him keep his job?
I haven't followed it that closely, but if Franken did resign wouldn't he likely be temporarily replaced by another Democrat until a special election is held or the next cycle? If that's true, then that even removes that this is somehow about politics (or at least losing a Senate seat). It just sounds like it's about excusing a guy for unacceptable behavior just because it wasn't as unacceptable back then.
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:02 PM
What?
Look at the picture. https://www.chickson.../11/franken.jpg
It shows Franken *pretending* to do that... there is air between his left hand and her right breast, and shadows under the fingers of his right hand as it hovers over her left breast... and she's wearing a dang flak jacket... groping through a flak jacket?
Is he hamming it up in poor taste? Yes
Is he groping her? No.
Hell, even Fox News says that... and they hate the guy....
The major transgression is forcing a wet kiss (with tongue)... she told him to not do it again, and he didn't... that's not how actual sexual predators behave...
EDIT: Flak vest, not flak jacket.
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:07 PM
What?
If someone read that Al Franken grabbed her tits they would surely have a different image in their head than the actual picture where she's wearing a big vest and at best, his fingertips make contact with said vest.
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:10 PM
The fact that the rebuttal is that a lot of elected officials would have to step down, is pretty sad too. What does that say about our states leaders?
That's not the only rebuttal, but to be clear, when I say that, I'm referring to bad behavior in general, not just sexual assualt and the like.
I think it actually says more about our soceity as a whole, and yes, it's pretty sad.
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:10 PM
Jesus. Zapruder film breakdown of the photo to see how bad it is.
Why should anyone who does what Franken has done be allowed to be an elected official? Explain.
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:12 PM
If this same photo came out of some high school kid doing this they'd kick him off of the homecoming court. But its ok if a Senator does it as long as he's really sorry about it.
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:12 PM
Jesus. Zapruder film breakdown of the photo to see how bad it is.
Why should anyone who does what Franken has done be allowed to be an elected official? Explain.
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:12 PM
If this same photo came out of some high school kid doing this they'd kick him off of the homecoming court. But its ok if a Senator does it as long as he's really sorry about it.
No one said it's OK.
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:15 PM
No one said it's OK.
Fine.
If this same photo came out of some high school kid doing this they'd kick him off of the homecoming court. But it's not worthy of any punishment if a Senator does it as long as he's really sorry about it.
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:15 PM
Look, I don't want to defend that picture, but when people grossy exaggerate it, I'm put in a position to do so.
The other accusation by Tweeden is the bigger issue here by far IMO.
You don't have to pick one.
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:18 PM
If this same photo came out of some high school kid doing this they'd kick him off of the homecoming court. But its ok if a Senator does it as long as he's really sorry about it.
You're acting like the only choices are either (a) saying it's OK, and (b) he resigns. That's an arbitrary reduction of choices to This vs That... which IMO is a not good judgement. It's like making a decision based on the headline and not the full reality of it.
But everyone can think whatever they want....
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:23 PM
I just heard a good idea about what Charlie Rose should do... *after* he comes to terms with all that he's done... he oughta take his production company and do a 10-part series on sexual harassment...
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:24 PM
You're acting like the only choices are either (a) saying it's OK, and (b) he resigns. That's an arbitrary reduction of choices to This vs That... which IMO is a not good judgement. It's like making a decision based on the headline and not the full reality of it.
But everyone can think whatever they want....
What's in between tacitly saying its ok and calling for his resignation?
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:26 PM
You don't have to pick one.
The photo alone is not enough for me. Sorry.
Fair-weather ex-diehard
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:28 PM
What's in between tacitly saying its ok and calling for his resignation?
Lots of things...
* An apology (which he already did, and which was accepted)
* Reprimand by the Senate
* Censure by the Senate
* Any number of possible Initiatives to earn forgiveness from others by his future actions as a senator.
* Putting together a forum on sexual harassment in which he lays out his own past behavior as part of the problem.
And that's a list from about 5 seconds...
The better list will come from women after they have a chance to process this in a thoughtful way instead of just knee-jerking to the current hysteria... some women have already been starting to do this, as demonstrated in 2 of the 3 links I posted earlier...
"The only change is that baseball has turned Paige from a second-class citizen to a second-class immortal." - Satchel Paige
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:30 PM
The photo alone is not enough for me. Sorry.
The photo doesn't make you more inclined to believe the other story?
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:32 PM
What's in between tacitly saying its ok and calling for his resignation?
Saying "You've been a bad boy. Go to your room and think about what you've done."
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:32 PM
The photo doesn't make you more inclined to believe the other story?
It does
HOF
Posted 21 November 2017 - 12:34 PM
Lots of things...
* An apology (which he already did, and which was accepted)
* Reprimand by the Senate
* Censure by the Senate
* Any number of possible Initiatives to earn forgiveness from others by his future actions as a senator.
* Putting together a forum on sexual harassment in which he lays out his own past behavior as part of the problem.
He can do all the initiatives and public forums after he resigns, IMO. Until then, it's hollow to me. Accepting responsibility for your actions only works if there are also consequences for those actions.
What he did is above the bar for what I think any publicly elected official should resign their seats. There should be a high standard for our elected officials, IMO, so that bar is fairly low. I don't think he should go to prison for his actions (unless there are more we don't know about). I do think he should quit the Senate.
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