276 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

I was having this conversation with someone, and I feel like it's a lot like staying with a significant other that was wronged you in some major way. You still do things with them, you still laugh with them, but...it just isn't all there. You can't full-reset. 

Do you get less enjoyment out of Suggs on the football field now than you did before he did what he did to his GF?

[mweb08]

Yep.  Hopefully in the future people who've been shown to behave this way won't get nearly that far.  Pretty dramatic shift in public perception of sexual harassment in the last month or so.  People didn't really care when it was Bill Cosby.  Didn't care when it was Trump.  Didn't care much when it was Ailes or O'Reilly.  Weinstein was the first one that really seemed to jar the public and get things moving.  Not sure if that was one major case or more of a back-breaking straw.  Either way, I think it's a good thing.

 

I don't know, I think a lot of people cared about Cosby and Trump.

 

But Weinstein was a tipping point in getting a lot more women to come forward.

[Mackus]

For a poltician, yes and by a lot.

 

For a comic, actor, director, musician, athlete, etc, yes, but it depends more on what they did and even after that it's complicated.

 

I still think Louis CK is hilarious and I really like his TV show. I can really like a movie or a team or a band or whatever as well even if they feature someone who did something awful, but at the same time my affection for that thing can be diminished and I can feel more uneasy watching it. It's kind of similar to how I feel about football. I can still like the sport, but all the CTE stuff makes it harder for me to enjoy.

 

Agree with this pretty closely. 

 

Also, time helps.  I probably won't watch Louis' movie (if it were being released).  I wouldn't watch a special that comes out in the near future.  I won't buy tickets to his show.  But in a couple years, I probably would watch his specials again.  Especially if he seems remorseful.

[mweb08]

I was having this conversation with someone, and I feel like it's a lot like staying with a significant other that was wronged you in some major way. You still do things with them, you still laugh with them, but...it just isn't all there. You can't full-reset. 

 

Plus, if you like a piece of art or comedy, you can't just unlike it after the fact because a person involved did something bad. You still like it, you just may feel some type of way about it.

[The Epic]

Do you get less enjoyment out of Suggs on the football field now than you did before he did what he did to his GF?

 

I was literally thinking of this when you posted it. 

 

And the answer is yes. But like everything, there's levels. I'm not saying that what he did wasn't awful. It's just that certain things strike certain people more than others for some reason. 

 

Steelers fans who openly rooted for Big Ben drew the line for Michael Vick, for example. Ravens fans stuck by Ray Rice and left after the London game, for another example. 

 

We're all complicated. 

[bnickle]

Depends on the political affiliation of the perp.

100

[mweb08]

If something shitty came out about a band I love, like Mackus mentioned with Louie, I probably wouldn't buy tickets to their concerts, and I certainly wouldn't be buying their shirts, but I'd still love the music because that's not something I can really change.

[mweb08]

100

 

LOL

[bnickle]

Ellen Degeneres ogled Katy Perry's breasts and made a suggestive comment in an Instagram even though Perry was in on it. Apparently. If the exact same situation had occurred and it was a male there wouldve been criticism.

[bnickle]

There are definitely different levels to all this too. Some women have claimed harassment because a male co worker told them they looked good. I get that if it's unwanted it's cringy but just because you don't want some particular dude telling you you look good that doesn't mean it's harrasment

[Mike in STL]

http://www.nbc.com/s...t/2751966?snl=1

[Mark Carver]

CBS News and PBS has suspended 75 year old him. Retirement for him as doubtful he'll be hired by anybody now?

 

Eight women say Charlie Rose sexually harassed them — with nudity, groping and lewd calls

 

https://www.washingt...m=.6276a28986c1

[RShack]

There is a scale of badness with this stuff. I think most states have a 1st through 4th degree of sexual assault or harassment. Statues of limitations exist. They shouldn't for this stuff because of the psychological damage it does to the victim that makes them wait so long to come forward some. 

 

I think you're getting things a little blurred up here... while some women have "psychological damage", that's not the reason why so many women stay quiet... the reason women don't come forward is because of the usual standard crap about nobody will believe them and they'll get attacked instead...  several women have said that the bad sexual behavior they encountered was small potatoes compared to what happened to them after they piped up about it... that's what's beginning to change, and that's what most needs to change... but even in some of the recent cases, nobody came forward until a collection of them did... it still takes strength-in-numbers... sad but true...

 

Retribution should fit the crime... but retribution should not be the point... the point should be that women don't have to have fear about whether or not to tell the truth... that's the important thing... 

 

Also, not all, or even most, women live with psychological damage... maybe the 14-yr-old who Roy Moore went after did (her subsequent years show signs of this)... but none of the others seem to have...  my bride has dealt with this crap since she was 12, and she's not experienced anything she considers damaging... she just got really tired of having to put a stop to it, that's all... beyond that, she thought mild cases were just men who needed to be discouraged, and the more aggressive cases were assholes being assholes...

 

Most grown women are not delicate flowers who need to be shielded... they mainly need to be believed when they tell the truth... and if that happens, then most of it will stop simply because of that... and probably about all of the power-relationship crap will stop once men know they have something to lose...

[RShack]

There is some sort of a sliding scale.  But the bar is pretty low in terms of what is sufficiently bad behavior to merit someone losing their position of power.

 

I'm speaking only of public perception and employment opportunity.  Not physical freedom or legal ramifications.  I think what Franken did is enough for me to think he should resign.

 

For me personally, if we're talking about what we might call a minor transgression, the criteria is whether the transgressor tried to silence the woman, or attacked the woman, or did something else to diss the woman, or did something other than own it.  If the transgressor did those things, well, I'd be happy to hang'em.  But I have a hard time taking the idea of resignation seriously when even the Ethics Committee (which is bad joke, but that's another story) really doesn't have  much to look into:  (1) she accused him, (2) he apologized to her directly (not just in the media), and (3) she accepted his apology (both directly and in the media).  I just don't see what's resignation-worthy about that.**

 

And before some nitwit claims that I'm saying this just because they assume (correctly) that I agree with Franken on most policy issues, I guarantee you I would say the same exact thing if it was an otherwise-respectable Republican involved in place of Franken even if I thought the Republican was dead wrong about policy matters...

 

I didn't think much of Franken as a comedian... but I think he's been excellent as a senator... this stuff has me very disappointed in him... my emotional reaction was similar to how I reacted when I heard on the radio that Raffy got busted for roids.... I'm not comparing the two sins, just mentioning that my disappointment was similar:  2 people I thought very highly of, and then I found out they didn't live up to that... left me feeling deflated... I wanted it to be not true, but I couldn't un-know that it was true...

 

 

** And neither does she:  when asked if she thought he should resign, she shook her head and said she didn't do this to get him to resign, she did it to encourage women to say what happened to them.

[RShack]

If it comes out that a female in power did this to another female or male, what would the reaction be? Think it would be the same?

Nope, not a chance...

Depending on what kind of power she's in, she could well lose her job... or not, depending on the details.... But if it was a female boss with a male subordinate, then a large bunch of males would react like a smart-ass, saying stuff like, "Damn, I wish she was *my* boss", etc., etc. You don't hear women talking like that about the males who do this crap... plus, another bunch of males would label her as some kind of slut or whore for being aggressive about sex instead of passively waiting for the man to take the initiative. If it was about 2 females, then there'd be way too much interest in the details, with many males hoping for video's.

Bottom line: If the guilty party is male, most males don't really wanna think about the details, but if the guilty party is female, then lots of males would wanna know *all* the details...

[Mark Carver]

[Mackus]

I think once more people find out about the Congressional slush fund to pay off accusations of sexual harassment people will be pretty upset.

[You Play to Win the Game]

The political posturing around Moore ® and Franken (D) is absolutely sickening. Pundits saying both parties not being as bullish as they'd like to be about this due to not wanting to lose a seat. Priorities.

[SportsGuy]

The political posturing around Moore ® and Franken (D) is absolutely sickening. Pundits saying both parties not being as bullish as they'd like to be about this due to not wanting to lose a seat. Priorities.

Does this surprise you?

Does anyone actually believe the politicians care about the people?

They care about their pockets and their power. They don’t care about anything else.

[You Play to Win the Game]

No. But it's sick.