52 replies to this topic

[DJ MC]

Nah, this is rewriting history. He started out knowing what he was doing and knowing how to do it. It was much later that he forgot how. Seems pretty clear to me that something about the coaching screwed him up, or at least failed to help him not screw up.

The pick was fine. What happened to him after he proved he was successful is the problem.

And even if someone wants to argue this, remember who the debate was over that year: Matusz or Smoak. The first baseman who is presently on his absolute, double-secret, final chance in Seattle.

[Mackus]

I just asked Britt on twitter if they still view BMat as a starter. She said she doesnt think the Orioles know yet. That the emphasis is on winning now and they think Brian can help out of pen.

I don't think you can take that statement to mean anything regarding the Orioles opinion of Matusz, aside from that they think he could help in a relief role against LHP at the major league level during a stretch run this season.

[Mike B]

I think there is som over reacting here. I have said a few times, September is going to be all hands on deck. Look for Matusz and Jake to both be part of a 12-14 man BP in September.

It is about trying to win games.
Everyone starts fresh next year.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I think there is som over reacting here. I have said a few times, September is going to be all hands on deck. Look for Matusz and Jake to both be part of a 12-14 man BP in September.

It is about trying to win games.
Everyone starts fresh next year.

I guess when you go so long without watching a September game that matters, it's easy to forget what the ultimate goal is and the means you take to get there.

[DuffMan]

Did anyone else catch the comment from Palmer last night in the booth? It was something along the lines of "Matusz not being as coachable as they would like him to be"

[Mike B]

Did anyone else catch the comment from Palmer last night in the booth? It was something along the lines of "Matusz not being as coachable as they would like him to be"

Palmer has said that before. The not coachable part is a double concern for me. First, Brian needs help. The pitcher we saw in the early part of Brian's career is not the one we are seeing now. He needs a mentor to help him get it back.

The other concern is this is a guy that has had too many coaches. Kranitz, Conner, Adair, Griffin, Peterson too many voices in a a 3 or 4 year career. Is he rebeling at the volume of voices in his ear.

[Mike B]

I guess when you go so long without watching a September game that matters, it's easy to forget what the ultimate goal is and the means you take to get there.

Exactly correct. It is almost laughable how people react to situations. We are so used to harping on all the negative that 14 years of losing provides that we can not see a team doing everything possible to pull off the impossible dream. I had to use that line with the Red Sox in town.

[Oriole85]

Proved?

Matusz had 10 or so very good starts at the end of 2010 and has otherwise been dreadful. It's not like he had it all figured out. Baseball history is littered with pitchers who put together an excellent 1/3 of a season.

You had the pre-Buck and post-Buck Matusz in 2010, which were two completely different pitchers. It was very encouraging to see how Matusz ended the year. But let's not forget a lot of these great starts were in meaningless September games.

Also, by his own admission, he had a very lax offseason in 2010-2011. I know many like to blame the coaches/PD people, but let's assign some responsbility to Matusz here. He worked harder this past offseason. As I said, maybe he's just not equipped to be an MLB starter or atleast for the Orioles, it's possible it's happened before. Truth be told, I think it's a combo of everything. He was pretty good in the minors before the call-up.

[Oriole85]

And even if someone wants to argue this, remember who the debate was over that year: Matusz or Smoak. The first baseman who is presently on his absolute, double-secret, final chance in Seattle.

True, we couldn't have taken Posey though right? Who cares if we had Wieters, you go BPA. Not like he would be an improvement from what we have at first now.

[RichardZ]

True, we couldn't have taken Posey though right? Who cares if we had Wieters, you go BPA. Not like he would be an improvement from what we have at first now.

Matusz also cost about half of what Posey did. You get what you pay for. At the time, I wanted Smoak over Matusz so neither looks all that great right now.

[JeremyStrain]

True, we couldn't have taken Posey though right? Who cares if we had Wieters, you go BPA. Not like he would be an improvement from what we have at first now.

Posey wasn't BPA.

[Oriole85]

Matusz also cost about half of what Posey did. You get what you pay for. At the time, I wanted Smoak over Matusz so neither looks all that great right now.

I do think the fact we had Wieters in the system played in that decision as much as some like to discount positional needs for drafting purposes.

[SportsGuy]

Matusz also cost about half of what Posey did. You get what you pay for. At the time, I wanted Smoak over Matusz so neither looks all that great right now.

Although you have to wonder what Smoak would have been had he stayed in Texas...or what if BMat was in Seattle and Smoak here?

[Oriole85]

Posey wasn't BPA.

Who would you have picked?

[Oriole85]

Although you have to wonder what Smoak would have been had he stayed in Texas...or what if BMat was in Seattle and Smoak here?

That's what this always comes back to -- changing the rules, changing the game. It's the whole the Orioles should've drafted Mike Trout. Yeah, damn right they should've. But it's far from a guarantee, he'd be producing like this here. I'd like him better than Matt Hobgood's chances, don't get me wrong.

[BobPhelan]

Matusz was the right pick for us at the time. Obviously he hasn't worked out for us to this point but theres still time. We'd be complaining just as loud if we would've taken Smoak. We would've heard alot of "the Orioles can't develop hitters, even when its a sure fire stud like Smoak". I probably would've been one of them...

[Oriole85]

Matusz was the right pick for us at the time. Obviously he hasn't worked out for us to this point but theres still time. We'd be complaining just as loud if we would've taken Smoak. We would've heard alot of "the Orioles can't develop hitters, even when its a sure fire stud like Smoak". I probably would've been one of them...

Well said and likewise, if we had taken Posey and he wouldn't have worked out. That being said, I do believe there's less of a risk involved with hitter than pitchers but the reward is greater with pitchers in most cases.

[Mackus]

Anybody trying to argue that Matusz wasn't a fantastic option at the time he was drafted is using purely hindsight and not being fair to reality. The choice was between Matusz and Smoak. Either would have been a great choice at #4. Neither have panned out.

Just the way it works some times. Matusz or Smoak weren't Hobgood type choices, they just haven't panned out.

[RichardZ]

Posey wasn't BPA.

That's arguable. As I said, Posey had a much bigger price tag. That doesn't mean he was the BPA but it's interesting that he got about 6M drafted a few spots after Matusz who got 3+M.

[JeremyStrain]

Who would you have picked?

At the time, Matusz, might have taken Hosmer over him, I was a little on the fence, same with Smoak but I was learning Bmat from him.

BPA implies that one player is CLEARLY better than the others. That is actually more rare than you think, it's much more common to see a grouping of closely rated players. BPA is a subjective term, and Posey was in the mix, but there was a lot of questioning with him too.