1541 replies to this topic

[bnickle]

1). If Harbaugh made some equally bad decision, you would be crushing him...and Harbaugh has actually had postseason success.

2). Staying with Harbaugh...you complain that he doesn't have a good feel for the game at times. It was obvious Ubaldo had nothing to those first few batters. If you want to hold off with Zach and hope to steal an inning or 2, fine. However, when the first 2 get on and the stuff looks that bad, you had the option of walking EE and then getting Zach in at that point.

3). How Ubaldo finished that game means nothing to how he could have started it.

4). Buck may not have been excited about anyone ending that game (Bundy may have been fine though) but you have to get to that point first. Zach should have been able to go multiple innings last night. So, you could have used him there, gotten the lead in the 12th and then closed it out with him in the bottom of the 12th.

Because you are the road team, you don't get that last at bat. So, you have to do what you can to continue the game.

Buck screwed up here. As you said earlier in the thread, you want Britton in the highest leverage situation possible. They didn't go to him earlier and since he was still there, that was the highest leverage situation possible and Buck had a guy off the street and a starter who struggled most of the year deciding the fate of this team. That can't happen. It was an awful decision on every level and no matter how much you want to kiss his ass, that doesn't change the stupidity of the decision.

I don't think he should be fired over it though. He put trust in a guy what had been very good for 6 weeks...but this was a different role and he looked terrible from the get go. Buck should have recognized that immediately.

Once he goes to Ubaldo he's in for awhile. Only Zach, Hunter, and Bundy were left to pitch. So, if he panics and removes U after 2 batters he now has only 2 pitchers left. Which probably gets you another 6 or 7 innings assuming no one gets hurt on the mound but still managers think about that stuff. He wasn't going to pull a guy who could in theory go 5-7 innings after two batters. Even in a do or die game.




Also, Harbaugh is mediocre while working in a top tier organization. Buck has been good in a bottom tier organization. Buck should walk away and show everyone who thinks a manager makes little difference how wrong they are.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

The whole you have to stick with Ubaldo cause you might run out of pitchers is insane. The Jays had runners on the corners with one out. And the O's had the best groundball pitcher in baseball in the bullpen. And the Jays had a masher at the plate.

 

There is zero logic for not bringing in Zach. We still had Bundy and Hunter in the pen. I think bringing in Ubaldo was a bad decision from the get go. But to leave him in there when the first two guys spanked him was one of the worst decisions I have seen in a lifetime of watching baseball.

[DuffMan]

If Britton wasn't an option to use, would anyone have walked EE to get to Batista (somebody who Ubaldo has great numbers against)?

[bnickle]

Zach should have pitched in the game but he was never going to just rush into a spot like that after U faced two batters.

[bnickle]

If Britton wasn't an option to use, would anyone have walked EE to get to Batista (somebody who Ubaldo has great numbers against)?

I think he didn't do that because he was afraid of the walk with how wild U can be. By facing EE he had a base to work with. He didn't want U out there thinking I have to throw cookies and have no room for error. The problem was trusting Ubaldo. The guy does seem like a good guy but he's a headcase in the sense that once things start going bad they snowball. I guarantee you it took everyone on that team 2 pitches to know this game was likely about to end. He didn't have the look from the second he entered the game

[Nigel Tufnel]

I wonder what was different about this game:

 

http://www.baseball-...201607310.shtml

 

 

Apparently this was the only time all year that Britton pitched in a tie game on the road, and Britton hadn't worked in 5 days, so it was more a case of Buck wanting to give him work over strategy.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

The decision making last night is exactly why Buck is an enigma. His approach is fantastic for the long haul. Keep the pen fresh. Look down the road at all the eventualities. Great in a 162 game season.

 

But it is flat out wrong in a situation like last night. Bottom of the 11th with one out and runners on the corners. A pitcher who had been hit hard by the first two guys he faced. You can't manage that scenario for the long haul. You have to do things differently and he apparently doesn't have the gene makeup to do so.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

If Britton wasn't an option to use, would anyone have walked EE to get to Batista (somebody who Ubaldo has great numbers against)?

For sure. Its is very risky to have to have the K or a DP. I want the better matchup and the force at home option.

[SportsGuy]

If Britton wasn't an option to use, would anyone have walked EE to get to Batista (somebody who Ubaldo has great numbers against)?

Not with Ubaldo on the mound.

But Ubaldo should have been pulled for Zach...I do it in that case.

[The Epic]

Question for the masses:

 

If Britton gives up that homer, is this more palatable of a loss?

 

Because it absolutely would be for me.

[bnickle]

It just sucks that we lost with Ubaldo on the mound. I get that he had a great month but he was atrocious for 5 months. Legit DFA option. A guy we knew could implode any moment. If you're out of options you obviously have to use him but I would certainly have used Britton and Bundy before him. Probably Hunter too.

[Nigel Tufnel]

It's weird that I would have been fine with Ubaldo starting the WC game or game 1 of the ALDS, but I was terrified when he came in last night.  I would have definitely used Bundy or Britton before him, and with one out already, I would have considered Hunter (although I probably wouldn't have used him against the middle of the order).

[Mike in STL]

If Britton wasn't an option to use, would anyone have walked EE to get to Batista (somebody who Ubaldo has great numbers against)?

100% for 2 reasons. Loading the bases gives you the force play at the plate and anywhere. Most important, why face Encarnacion AND Bautista when you don't need to? Bautista and Martin if they don't get the DP.

Put the Jays in this spot. Would they rather face Manny and Trumbo or Trumbo and Wieters? The answer is easy and the comps are similar.

[Mike in STL]

Question for the masses:
 
If Britton gives up that homer, is this more palatable of a loss?
 
Because it absolutely would be for me.

Yes. Because you did what you were supposed to and you tip your cap to the other side. The team isnt even there without Zach. People will say they aren't here without Ubaldo, but you can chalk up 5 or 6 more losses if the had a regular closer instead of the best.

[BSLMattJergensen]

I'm finally ready to talk about last night.

 

Britton should have started the 11th inning. Carrera (lefty) had two hits from the #9 spot, then Travis and Donaldson. Then if the pitch count is decent he goes out for another inning if needed. You can't end your season without him getting a chance to help you. No excuse. No logic to defend this move. There is no tomorrow.

 

If Britton would have given up the homer then I'm feeling a bit better. Both teams are here for a reason, sometimes one gets the better of the other.

 

The hitting once again was exposed in the post-season. This should be a call to revamp the hitting approach and construct the roster in a different way. Getting to the playoffs 3 out of 5 times is impressive after such a dry spell but isn't the true goal winning a championship?

 

Having a plan in the batter's box is vital in professional baseball and it's not often that you feel like our hitters are much beyond swinging as hard as they can most times to hit it out.

 

That said this team overachieved. They should not have been there. For that many people deserve credit but now that the season is over and the flaws of this approach have been shown once again. Will the front office/ staff address them?

[Mike B]

Question for the masses:

 

If Britton gives up that homer, is this more palatable of a loss?

 

Because it absolutely would be for me.

Still painful but probably easier to take.

 

I did not want UJ to start the game, I did not want him in there.  He takes time to settle in.

 

UJ had a good, real good last 6 weeks, but I did not want to trust him with the season on the line.  He is the most erratic player, I think I have ever seen.

 

Britton should have been in, but if not him, I would have preferred Bundy.

 

Hell I would have gone to Hunter too.

 

Time to move on.  Encarnacion's ball just landed and time for the off season.

[NewMarketSean]

It just sucks that we lost with Ubaldo on the mound. I get that he had a great month but he was atrocious for 5 months. Legit DFA option. A guy we knew could implode any moment. If you're out of options you obviously have to use him but I would certainly have used Britton and Bundy before him. Probably Hunter too.

 

The levee was going to break at some point. Someone was going to score a run and it probably wasn't going to be us the way we were swinging the bats.

 

It could have easily been Bundy, Hunter or even Britton who gave up the losing run.

 

Without Ubaldo, the O's dont even sniff a WC game so I am not going to kill him for that performance last night, all 4 pitches of it.

 

Our offense was stale dogshit and has been since July. That's what lost us the game. Can't expect to hold Toronto to 2 runs in their house for a dozen plus innings and NOT SCORE ANOTHER RUN.

[bnickle]

If there is any silver lining about last night it's that Ubaldo can't be trusted to do shit in '17. I know how things would have ended up going in some people's minds after his September. They would be counting on him to be a decent rotation option all of next year. Never forget his first 5 months.

[NewMarketSean]

If there is any silver lining about last night it's that Ubaldo can't be trusted to do shit in '17. I know how things would have ended up going in some people's minds after his September. They would be counting on him to be a decent rotation option all of next year. Never forget his first 5 months.

I disagree. The money has been spent and Ubaldo was solid in critical situations for us. Try to keep it going next year but if he falls apart next year, dump him and dump him quickly.

[bnickle]

I'm not saying you cut him. I'm just saying you don't rely on him in any way whatsoever. Shame he blew up last night. Someone may have been willing to take him for 6 or 7 mil and allow us to spend that money elsewhere