40 replies to this topic

[LanceRinker]

For what we would be forced to pay Hamilton and Greinke to get them to come here I'd rather spread that money out to fill more holes. The players below would be my main targets in free agency while other clubs are focusing their attention on Hamilton, Greinke, and Hamels.

B.J. Upton
Melky Cabrera
Jose Lopez or Kelly Johnson for 2b

Dan Haren - could be a decent buy low option
Edwin Jackson
Brandon McCarthy

We could then see how Machado does at either SS or 3B in spring training and hope he's worthy of sticking in the bigs to start the year.

[JeremyStrain]

Sign BJ for a decent amount and trade for Justin? Both Uptons and Jones for an OF?

[LanceRinker]

Sign BJ for a decent amount and trade for Justin? Both Uptons and Jones for an OF?

That actually wouldn't be a bad idea - I've heard that they are both a bit mentally ... I don't know if weak is the right word but there's that rumor of motivation being an issue for the two of them.

Even if that were true I think they would rise up to their talent levels by motivating each other if they were on the same team.

Plus, if we traded for J. Upton then BJ would probably be more likely to sign with us.

[JeremyStrain]

That actually wouldn't be a bad idea - I've heard that they are both a bit mentally ... I don't know if weak is the right word but there's that rumor of motivation being an issue for the two of them.

Even if that were true I think they would rise up to their talent levels by motivating each other if they were on the same team.

Plus, if we traded for J. Upton then BJ would probably be more likely to sign with us.

I've heard you need strong team leadership if you are going to take them on, but Jones might be a good influence and it is fairly close to home for them.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I've heard you need strong team leadership if you are going to take them on, but Jones might be a good influence and it is fairly close to home for them.

Where is Markakis in this plan, or are you projecting BJ Upton at DH?

[JeremyStrain]

Where is Markakis in this plan, or are you projecting BJ Upton at DH?

I would try to deal him to AZ in the Upton package to get that 15m off the books.

[mweb08]

For arguments sake, let's say the high end of the contracts I suggested are what it would take...This is what some of the team could look like by June 1:

1st- ????
2nd- Schoop- 400K
SS- Machado- 400K
3rd- Headley- 6M
LF- Hamilton- 25M
CF- Jones- 8.5M
RF- Nick- 15M
DH- Davis- 750K
C- Wieters- 3M

Greinke- 22M
Hammel- 7M
Chen- 3.5
Bundy- 400K


Other money owed:

BRob: 10M
Wada: 4M
Lindstrom: 200K
Betimet: 1.75M

That is 108 million...still need another starter, a bullpen, a first baseman and a bench.

For me, I am trading Hardy and Johnson and hoping to fill out more of this team with some of those players. My hope is to get Headley without giving up BMat or Schoop...if we are able to do that, then I think Matusz is the 5th starter.

So, the question is this...is it realistic to think they couldspend 130-140 million on the payroll NEXT YEAR and, would they go beyond that and sign another very good starter, like a Sanchez?

Well I think Hamilton could be had for less and his and Greinke's contracts would be backloaded some. So that brings it down to about 100M or just over.

I don't think another starter would be needed if Matusz and Britton are still around.

Chris' suggestion about Davis at 1B with Betemit and Reimold at DH makes sense,

Otherwise, the BP could remain largely intact.

That's a team with good potential that would cost around 110M.

However, I am not thrilled by the idea of giving Hamilton that type of contract, and more due to his age and injury history than his drug history; although, that does certainly factor into it.

[LanceRinker]

I would try to deal him to AZ in the Upton package to get that 15m off the books.

Even if we couldn't deal Kakes to AZ we could still give him a try at 1B. Might not be a big time power threat but his glove could play well there. Especially with his declining throwing power from RF - which, oddly enough, I just don't get what happened in that regard.

Any thoughts?

[JeremyStrain]

Even if we couldn't deal Kakes to AZ we could still give him a try at 1B. Might not be a big time power threat but his glove could play well there. Especially with his declining throwing power from RF - which, oddly enough, I just don't get what happened in that regard.

Any thoughts?

I'd love to keep his OBP in the lineup but 15m is too much for me. I think the wrist injury has reduced the throwing strength. Hopefully AZ would want him back I know they want players ready to step in next year.

[LanceRinker]

I'd love to keep his OBP in the lineup but 15m is too much for me. I think the wrist injury has reduced the throwing strength. Hopefully AZ would want him back I know they want players ready to step in next year.

Even before the wrist injury his throwing was a bit weak - or weaker than usual. Possibly the abdominal surgery he said he was fully recovered from.

I could see the D-Backs actually taking Kakes in part of a package in exchange for Upton. They'd get a guy who is a good clubhouse presense and leads by example. Something they've said is very important to them.

[SportsGuy]

Well I think Hamilton could be had for less and his and Greinke's contracts would be backloaded some. So that brings it down to about 100M or just over.

I don't think another starter would be needed if Matusz and Britton are still around.

Chris' suggestion about Davis at 1B with Betemit and Reimold at DH makes sense,

Otherwise, the BP could remain largely intact.

That's a team with good potential that would cost around 110M.

However, I am not thrilled by the idea of giving Hamilton that type of contract, and more due to his age and injury history than his drug history; although, that does certainly factor into it.

Would you rather make the trade you suggested for Upton or sign Hamilton to a 6/7 year deal?

[mweb08]

Would you rather make the trade you suggested for Upton or sign Hamilton to a 6/7 year deal?

Not a fan of doing either, but if I had to choose one, I'd say sign Hamilton if it's more like 6/120-130, but Upton if the cost is more like 7/160+. Both have red flags, but at least with Hamilton, no talent has to be given up and he's not a negative clubhouse house/work ethic guy (despite his issues) like Upton may be.

Then that leaves Hardy and Johnson as potential trade bait, with Arrieta and Matusz figuring into the pitching staff somehow, and a good and cheap reliever in Strop to pitch in high leverage situations.

It's a pretty hard question for me to answer, though. If these were realistic options and I was in charge, a tremendous amount of analysis/research would have to go into such a huge and complex decision.

[SportsGuy]

Not a fan of doing either, but if I had to choose one, I'd say sign Hamilton if it's more like 6/120-130, but Upton if the cost is more like 7/160+. Both have red flags, but at least with Hamilton, no talent has to be given up and he's not a negative clubhouse house/work ethic guy (despite his issues) like Upton may be.

Then that leaves Hardy and Johnson as potential trade bait, with Arrieta and Matusz figuring into the pitching staff somehow, and a good and cheap reliever in Strop to pitch in high leverage situations.

It's a pretty hard question for me to answer, though. If these were realistic options and I was in charge, a tremendous amount of analysis/research would have to go into such a huge and complex decision.

Well, a lot of it would be what can you do with the other guys in trade and you would have an idea of that when you talk to other teams.

[Mike B]

Putting aside the idea of acquiring Upton for a moment.

If this team could acquire Headley now, without giving up the big 3 prospects(and preferably not Delmonico as well), then how about we just go all out for Josh Hamilton and Greinke in the offseason.

So, few questions for you:

1) are you on board with getting those guys?

2) Does it bother you to go after both of them given their histories, whether it be physical or mental? Should we just go after 1 of them because the risk is too high to have them both?

3) What is the most you would be willing to go to acquire each player?

I would be on board because we need a TOR starter and Greinke is close to that and Hamilton would provide that impact bat that makes others around him better.
Their histories certainly make them a gamble but maybe slightly less expensive.
Hamilton....6 years 144 million
Greinke...4 years....85 million
That would more than likely not get either, but give me credit that is 229 million more than PGA is going to go.
Anybody got 229 million laying around?

[Moose Milligan]

Hamilton, yes. I believe his drug issues are overblown, he's stayed clean for years now. As long as the Orioles have the proper handlers in place to help him out, he should be fine.

Greinke, sort of. I think he's a bit overrated but if we got him I wouldn't object.

[ChaosLex]

Hamilton, yes. I believe his drug issues are overblown, he's stayed clean for years now. As long as the Orioles have the proper handlers in place to help him out, he should be fine.

Greinke, sort of. I think he's a bit overrated but if we got him I wouldn't object.

Holy crap! I didn't know you were posting on here, Moose. That's awesome!!!!!!!!!!

[Chris B]

Hamilton, yes. I believe his drug issues are overblown, he's stayed clean for years now. As long as the Orioles have the proper handlers in place to help him out, he should be fine.

Greinke, sort of. I think he's a bit overrated but if we got him I wouldn't object.

I agree with Hamilton on the drug issues. I would probably go for both of them. Why not? The Orioles are in "win now" mode, and that mode should stretch to the next 3-4 years with Jones and Wieters (and the "cavalry" if you really want to include them...I don't) in their prime and Bundy, Machado, and Co. coming up.

But of course, the big issue here will be if ownership is willing to use a ton of money to get those guys here. In no way do I see that happening.

[SportsGuy]

Hamels signed with Philly...6/144.

I think Greinke gets in between Hamels and Cain.

[ChaosLex]

Hamels signed with Philly...6/137.5.

I think Greinke gets in between Hamels and Cain.

Agreed.

In other words, more than we're willing to pay.

[SportsGuy]

Agreed.

In other words, more than we're willing to pay.

Yea....just go steal Josh Johnson then.