48 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

Buck has to realize that his loyalty to players and things like that need to go away and that this team must add real, top flight talent.

That is the only way we are going to contend.

[NewMarketSean]

Seems like Buck develops some kind of rift everywhere he goes. This isn't a guy we had to buy away from someone else, he has spent seasons out of baseball quite a few times over the past 20 years or so.

I've always thought it curious that he has been replaced and that same team he had minus a few tweaks went on to the WS game a couple different times now. Makes you wonder if he's not great at developing young teams but then his style isn't suited for better competing teams.

The Mets blasted Petersen when he left NY.

Buck has had his issues in the past burning bridges too.

I think DD will have to do something soon, and he's not going to fire one of the guys he brought in so I think Adair will be fired shortly.

[hallas]

Mark Viviano ‏@MarkViviano

Buck on pregame radio re adjusting Britton's pitching mechanics: I'm not into "schticks & gimmicks."

Is that a shot at Peterson?

This quote doesn't sound good at all. Did anyone listen to it and get the context?

[RichardZ]

This quote doesn't sound good at all. Did anyone listen to it and get the context?

I think Allstar said that it might be more of Buck protecting Adair than attacking Petersen. Adair has the pitchers making adjustments as well. There's just not a lot you can point to in Adair's favor of "fixing" someone. We all saw a better delivery and much better velocity from Tillman which is a feather in Petersen's cap despite what he did against the Twins. I think Petersen's been getting some press lately and it could be construed as criticism of Adair by Adair and Showalter. Buck's just saying results are the bottom line, which is fair.

[DJ MC]

I think Allstar said that it might be more of Buck protecting Adair than attacking Petersen. Adair has the pitchers making adjustments as well. There's just not a lot you can point to in Adair's favor of "fixing" someone. We all saw a better delivery and much better velocity from Tillman which is a feather in Petersen's cap despite what he did against the Twins. I think Petersen's been getting some press lately and it could be construed as criticism of Adair by Adair and Showalter. Buck's just saying results are the bottom line, which is fair.

If he wants results to be the bottom line, he should be saying the same things about his own pitching coach, because those results are worse over a longer stretch.

[bnickle]

I disagree with this.

First of all, SAMPLE SIZE!

Secondly, Tillman's stuff is back. Peterson has been working with him and obviously what he tweaked has changed Tillman. Britton was also pitching well when working with Peterson in AAA after he stopped worrying about the shoulder(as they talked about last night).

Lastly, the one thing that makes me think Buck and RP may be on the same page is that he listened to RP's opinion and kept Matusz in AAA.

We shall see...There certainly seems to be some issue there but that doesn't mean Buck doesn't ultimately agree with RP's approach.

I agree for the most part. My point was if there is a rift,if Buck isn't a fan of what Peterson is doing than he would certainly look at the last two nights as evidence in his favor.

To be clear , I really like these guys working with Peterson but ultimately, regardless of cleaner mechanics, improved velocity, etc, it's going to come down to results.

[Thyrl]

I got to talk with Peterson a couple of times last year before he got the job and have become a big fan. When I talked with Britton last week about the return (http://bit.ly/M7z1wE) I asked him about Peterson's impact on him. He reminded me that because of his injury in the spring he wasn't able to do the bio-mechanics "lab". He said that he did have Peterson to himself for a few days recently but their work together has been limited at best.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I got to talk with Peterson a couple of times last year before he got the job and have become a big fan. When I talked with Britton last week about the return (http://bit.ly/M7z1wE) I asked him about Peterson's impact on him. He reminded me that because of his injury in the spring he wasn't able to do the bio-mechanics "lab". He said that he did have Peterson to himself for a few days recently but their work together has been limited at best.

Interesting stuff. Thanks very much for posting this.

[RShack]

I don't know how this will turn out, and I'm not sure the "rift" is really there... but all the questions that have been raised here are quite relevant.

* The long term Peterson vision vs. Buck's "we're closer than you think" vision.
* The fact that DD seems to believe in both of the above.
* The natural tension between long-term and short-term concerns.
* The fact that Buck gets more difficult the more he can taste it.

Personally, I'm hoping that DD's obvious lack of people skills will be an asset in his relationship with Buck, i.e., he'll tell him when to STFU. I don't think Buck wants to be a knucklehead again...

[BSLChrisStoner]

Received an interesting email tonight.

The source asked not be named, so I'll respect that, and understand you will make of this what you will.
I'll also ask for you to avoid speculating on the potential source.


My source has heard from what they believe to be two credible sources of their own that the Orioles pitching staff is not happy with Adair, and the organization is not happy that Adair is not embracing the system Duquette brought in with Peterson. Has heard rumblings of a change in the air, possibly in-season, but more than likely this winter.

My own spin is that it will be interesting to see Showalter's reaction if the FO wants to replace Adair with Peterson.

[LanceRinker]

Received an interesting email tonight.

The source asked not be named, so I'll respect that, and understand you will make of this what you will.
I'll also ask for you to avoid speculating on the potential source.


My source has heard from what they believe to be two credible sources that the Orioles pitching staff is not happy with Adair, and the organization is not happy that Adair is not embracing the system Duquette brought in with Peterson. Has heard rumblings of a change in the air, possibly in-season, but more than likely this winter.

My own spin is that it will be interesting to see Showalter's reaction if the FO wants to replace Adair with Peterson.

Considering that Adair has been tasked with getting the most our of Arrieta, Matusz, and Britton - all three of which are in Triple-A and have performed horribly in the big leagues and have had mixed results in the minors - this does not surprise me at all.

I expected this team to make a coaching change in the off-season anyway, kind of figured it would be Adair who is asked to leave. For the sake of some form of continuity and having a person in place who knows what's going on and what's expected Peterson makes the most sense.

The real question - IF Adair is the one taking the train out of Baltimore - is whether Buck would accept Peterson taking on the role of pitching coach or not.

[JeremyStrain]

Received an interesting email tonight.

The source asked not be named, so I'll respect that, and understand you will make of this what you will.
I'll also ask for you to avoid speculating on the potential source.


My source has heard from what they believe to be two credible sources of their own that the Orioles pitching staff is not happy with Adair, and the organization is not happy that Adair is not embracing the system Duquette brought in with Peterson. Has heard rumblings of a change in the air, possibly in-season, but more than likely this winter.

My own spin is that it will be interesting to see Showalter's reaction if the FO wants to replace Adair with Peterson.

Sounds similar to things I heard last season and offseason. I was amazed Buck kept Adair around. Looking at the pitchers with Kranny and then after, I'd love to see Peterson in there and see if that works. Gotta have the staff comfortable with their most important coach. If not, and Buck balks and leaves, maybe it'll keep the tradition where his former team goes on to the WS the next season

[DJ MC]

Received an interesting email tonight.

The source asked not be named, so I'll respect that, and understand you will make of this what you will.
I'll also ask for you to avoid speculating on the potential source.


My source has heard from what they believe to be two credible sources of their own that the Orioles pitching staff is not happy with Adair, and the organization is not happy that Adair is not embracing the system Duquette brought in with Peterson. Has heard rumblings of a change in the air, possibly in-season, but more than likely this winter.

My own spin is that it will be interesting to see Showalter's reaction if the FO wants to replace Adair with Peterson.

I get that spam from Nestor Aparicio, too.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I get that spam from Nestor Aparicio, too.

Nestor and I aren't exactly on each other's X-Mas card list. My source here is not NST, nor anyone else in Baltimore for that matter.

[SportsGuy]

I get that spam from Nestor Aparicio, too.

Reading between the lines, it doesn't take an engineering degree to figure out something is up with the pitchers.

This isn't spam. I am sure Chris' source is legit.

[DJ MC]

Geez, tough crowd tonight

[Bob Klein]

You guys are so closely attuned to the Orioles that I have to assume there are elements of fact in all of the posts in this thread, which disappoints me because it is evidence that the root of all of this franchise's problems remains unresolved: Peter Angelos still has not decided (1) to let baseball professionals run baseball operations; and (2) as a result, no one in senior operating management knows who the boss is.

Every goal-driven organization needs a clear chain of command. Only one person can be the ultimate leader and decider. Everyone else derives their authority from him, and his first priority must be organization -- putting one, and only one, person in charge of each major operating component.

It appears from the posts that there are two people trying to make policy about pitching, and each has his own support in the organization, but apparently Peter Angelos is unwilling to fix it, or just doesn't understand that he is the only person who can clear up this misunderstanding.

It still makes me wonder how he became so wealthy as a lawyer. This ain't rocket surgery (as one of our former presidents used to say.)

[RShack]

You guys are so closely attuned to the Orioles that I have to assume there are elements of fact in all of the posts in this thread, which disappoints me because it is evidence that the root of all of this franchise's problems remains unresolved: Peter Angelos still has not decided (1) to let baseball professionals run baseball operations; and (2) as a result, no one in senior operating management knows who the boss is.

Every goal-driven organization needs a clear chain of command. Only one person can be the ultimate leader and decider. Everyone else derives their authority from him, and his first priority must be organization -- putting one, and only one, person in charge of each major operating component.

It appears from the posts that there are two people trying to make policy about pitching, and each has his own support in the organization, but apparently Peter Angelos is unwilling to fix it, or just doesn't understand that he is the only person who can clear up this misunderstanding.

It still makes me wonder how he became so wealthy as a lawyer. This ain't rocket surgery (as one of our former presidents used to say.)

While history gives you reason to have these concerns, I think it's way too soon to know if this current thing is any kind of evidence that it continues. It might prove to be just as you say, or it might be rather different than that.

It's completely normal for folks in an org to have different opinions about how to best do things. If it's true that there is some conflict re: Adair, that fact does not say anything at all about whether the org is being properly run. The only thing that will tell us anything about that is how the matter is resolved. If that conflict is resolved in a satisfactory way and without undue outside drama, that would be consistent with a well run org. It's completely normal to want to wait for the off-season to make coaching changes. It's also completely normal for there to be some disagreement inside an org for some period of time before things get resolved (whether by personnel changes or by changes of attitude). We don't know what DD has said to either Buck or Adair. We don't know whether DD's intention is to try to keep the coaching staff as-is until the off-season. We don't know lots of things.

Now, if we find ourselves having this same discussion next season, that would prove things are as you suspect. But right now, if there is conflict, that doesn't tell us beans about PA screwing things up or about the org being screwy. The only thing that will tell us that is if the conflict is not resolved. If it is not resolved, then you can say he's still screwing things up. But not yet, I don't think... that would be jumping to a conclusion that is based 100% on the past. The rumor of just a current disagreement does not justify that. While there is truth in saying that good org's need a chain of command, you also gotta remember that most good org's are not run like the Army. And, if what my friends who have been in the military are to be believed, there is more disagreement within the military about how best to do things than you might suspect... and it is not always resolved in a short time window either.

Now, truth be told, I would not be shocked if we later learned you are right. (Disappointed, yes, but not shocked.) But there is no real reason to conclude that now, except for PA-hate.

[bnickle]

I can't believe Buck is that tied down to Adair. I think he'll be willing to let him go this offseason. Of course, he'll want to sign off on the next guy and it'll be interesting to see if DD tries to push Peterson on him and how Buck would respond.

[Mike B]

I think this type of stuff happens during the long season. No one is worth disrupting a team in a pennant race right now.