48 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

http://www.baltimore... ... 0015.story

This article makes it seem that way.

Otoh, Buck listened to RP about keeping BMat down.

[NewMarketSean]

Not a glowing article, IMO. Seems like Buck may not have completely bought into Duquette's strategy, or especially now that the wheels are coming off. In other words, same shit different year in Baltimore.

[SportsGuy]

Not a glowing article, IMO. Seems like Buck may not have completely bought into Duquette's strategy, or especially now that the wheels are coming off. In other words, same shit different year in Baltimore.

The difference is, RP has a real program and one that addresses many of the issues this organization has had with their pitchers.

Will it work? That remains to be seen but I think Adair is a bigger issue.

[SportsGuy]

Mark Viviano ‏@MarkViviano

Buck on pregame radio re adjusting Britton's pitching mechanics: I'm not into "schticks & gimmicks."

Is that a shot at Peterson?

[DJ MC]

Probably.

Could this be the beginning of Buck's exit from Baltimore? He always runs into some problem with the management or the players (or both) that ends with him leaving the position.

Almost something to hope for with the whole he-leaves-and-the-team-makes-the-playoffs-the-next-season thing

[SportsGuy]

Probably.

Could this be the beginning of Buck's exit from Baltimore? He always runs into some problem with the management or the players (or both) that ends with him leaving the position.

Almost something to hope for with the whole he-leaves-and-the-team-makes-the-playoffs-the-next-season thing

Personally, i don't care if he leaves.

He is good for a lot of things but bad for the organization in others.

Would like to see Hale take over.

[DJ MC]

Personally, i don't care if he leaves.

He is good for a lot of things but bad for the organization in others.

Would like to see Hale take over.

Why him?

[SportsGuy]

Why him?

Always heard good things about him. Well liked and respected.

Was really happy when we brought him on as a coach.

[bnickle]

I like Buck a lot but I I'll take Peterson's approach and resume over Adair's any day of the week. Clearly some tension here. It's a lock one of them won;t be back and considering Peterson is on a 1 year deal he seems most likely to go. Though, DD is not the one who hired Buck so you never know.


Unfortunately the last 2 nights do not reflect well on Peterson. Granted, Tillman was terrific in his first start and these guys deserve a real chance over an extended period up here at this level. Just saying, that Buck very well might throw in another zinger in his postgame presser tonight and well, you couldn't blame him if he did.


BTW...definitely makes the decision not to initially move Arrieta to AAA interesting. This could have very well been it. I mean there really was no reason for him to go to the bullpen vs AAA initially

[bnickle]

Oh and is anybody even surprised in the least that their is dysfunction in this organization. I mean all you can do is laugh really.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I swear, if we abandon everything that Peterson is doing as our minor league pitching coordinator, that will be the straw that breaks the camels back for me in terms of going from an uber obsessed fan, to a more casual, check in a few times a week just to see how we are doing fan. DD's idea of truly focusing on development is one of the biggest sources of hope I have right now for this organization. So as much as I love Buck, I'd much prefer to see him go if this turns into more of a rift. I know I'm getting way ahead of myself even saying that. This whole thing could potentially get very interesting... Who would PA back... Duq/RP, or Buck?

[JeremyStrain]

I swear, if we abandon everything that Peterson is doing as our minor league pitching coordinator, that will be the straw that breaks the camels back for me in terms of going from an uber obsessed fan, to a more casual, check in a few times a week just to see how we are doing fan. DD's idea of truly focusing on development is one of the biggest sources of hope I have right now for this organization. So as much as I love Buck, I'd much prefer to see him go if this turns into more of a rift. I know I'm getting way ahead of myself even saying that. This whole thing could potentially get very interesting... Who would PA back... Duq/RP, or Buck?

Seems like Buck develops some kind of rift everywhere he goes. This isn't a guy we had to buy away from someone else, he has spent seasons out of baseball quite a few times over the past 20 years or so.

I've always thought it curious that he has been replaced and that same team he had minus a few tweaks went on to the WS game a couple different times now. Makes you wonder if he's not great at developing young teams but then his style isn't suited for better competing teams.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Seems like Buck develops some kind of rift everywhere he goes. This isn't a guy we had to buy away from someone else, he has spent seasons out of baseball quite a few times over the past 20 years or so.

I've always thought it curious that he has been replaced and that same team he had minus a few tweaks went on to the WS game a couple different times now. Makes you wonder if he's not great at developing young teams but then his style isn't suited for better competing teams.

My opinion is that Buck is a visionary. He goes into really bad situations and inspires the group to develope into professionals and have hope. But then something happens, and I think it's only natural--a couple years go by and he wants to see a return on his investment. When you're a manager, your primary job is to win games, you're closest to the whole thing than anyone else in the organization, so the whole forest through the trees things happens. I think that in general, Buck is a big picture kind of guy, but after a while, the frustration sets in and gets the better of him. This is all complete speculation obviously, I could be very wrong.

[RichardZ]

And with both parties trying to be a part of the solution to the Orioles pitching problems, can a happy marriage between two varying philosophies exist in the long run?


There is nothing in this article to suggest that there are two different philosophies? What is Buck's philosophy? I think most of the article is just speculation fueled by a couple of innocuous comments by Buck. It's more than just mechanics. Even Rick Petersen would agree with that. At the same time, everyone saw Tillman throw the ball better than he ever has in Seattle. If that's because he changed where he breaks his hands or because he changed the position of his foot, great. It sure didn't happen just because he tried harder. Pitching is more than just mechanics but mechanics is a big part of it. I have to see a lot more before I come to the conclusion that Buck Showalter has a problem with what Rick Petersen is doing with the minor league pitchers. The blurb about Arrieta is pretty weak indeed. They were going to put him in the bullpen to keep him away from Petersen but a week later they did just that? That's speculation and assumption at it's worst.

[JeremyStrain]

I think it was more of Buck sticking up for his hand-picked pitching coach before people started clamoring for Peterson to replace him. Almost sounds like the idea for this article was plucked right off of a message board though.

[SportsGuy]

I like Buck a lot but I I'll take Peterson's approach and resume over Adair's any day of the week. Clearly some tension here. It's a lock one of them won;t be back and considering Peterson is on a 1 year deal he seems most likely to go. Though, DD is not the one who hired Buck so you never know.


Unfortunately the last 2 nights do not reflect well on Peterson. Granted, Tillman was terrific in his first start and these guys deserve a real chance over an extended period up here at this level. Just saying, that Buck very well might throw in another zinger in his postgame presser tonight and well, you couldn't blame him if he did.


BTW...definitely makes the decision not to initially move Arrieta to AAA interesting. This could have very well been it. I mean there really was no reason for him to go to the bullpen vs AAA initially

I disagree with this.

First of all, SAMPLE SIZE!

Secondly, Tillman's stuff is back. Peterson has been working with him and obviously what he tweaked has changed Tillman. Britton was also pitching well when working with Peterson in AAA after he stopped worrying about the shoulder(as they talked about last night).

Lastly, the one thing that makes me think Buck and RP may be on the same page is that he listened to RP's opinion and kept Matusz in AAA.

We shall see...There certainly seems to be some issue there but that doesn't mean Buck doesn't ultimately agree with RP's approach.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Did Buck listen to RP, or did DD just make the call?

Also, Brittons stuff was pretty good last night. Control, not so much, but stuff definitely.

[Mackus]

I hope they don't agree.

Or, more accurately, I think differing opinions are (or at least can be) a good thing. There is no one right way that works for all players. It would likely be best for the organization if we were capable of applying different approaches to different pitchers.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I hope they don't agree.

Or, more accurately, I think differing opinions are (or at least can be) a good thing. There is no one right way that works for all players. It would likely be best for the organization if we were capable of applying different approaches to different pitchers.

Buck Showalters past says 'hello, and I disagree'. In general I agree with you though.

[JeremyStrain]

My opinion is that Buck is a visionary. He goes into really bad situations and inspires the group to develope into professionals and have hope. But then something happens, and I think it's only natural--a couple years go by and he wants to see a return on his investment. When you're a manager, your primary job is to win games, you're closest to the whole thing than anyone else in the organization, so the whole forest through the trees things happens. I think that in general, Buck is a big picture kind of guy, but after a while, the frustration sets in and gets the better of him. This is all complete speculation obviously, I could be very wrong.

I think all managers have certain styles, and some work better in different situations. Some guys are great with large market teams, some with small market teams, some guys are better with an already built contender (Davey Johnson) and some are better building a team of young inexperienced kids. I've just always thought that he does better with the younger kids, but the veterans don't really like his style. Could be wrong, just always the impression I had.