48 replies to this topic

[Chris B]

Here's where I'm at:

 

The Orioles clearly need to invest in and further spend in Latin America, specifically the Dominican Republic.

 

(In reality, Venezuela is becoming less and less of an option for all teams because of the political and social issues. The Venezuelan Summer League may not even happen this year due to lack of teams and I'm pretty sure there are less than 10 team academies in VZ now.)

 

But the DR has to be mined and invested in more. It's just inexcusable not to use all of your bonus pool every single year in that talent hotbed. And, like I said above, every so often you need to strategically go over your bonus and just pay the tax like 33-50% of the league is doing every year.

 

Now, I'm fine with using some resources in new areas, China being an example. Just by sheer population numbers there has to be some talent there. Frankly, In China, I doubt the O's are spending much since it's MLB's academy. Maybe spending some money on a scout or two to fly over and check it out, or some equipment, but that's about it. It's worth the investment and I really don't see how anyone can think they're spending more money in China than in the DR.

 

It's OK to invest in brand-new markets but what you really need to go is put money into the places that are and have been churning out major league talent for decades. That's the DR.

[Mackus]

You wouldn't want Yasiel Puig for $6M a year? You wouldn't want Aroldis Chapman for $5M per? Ok.

 

How about Rusney Castillo for $10.3M per?  Yasmani Tomas for $11.4M? 

 

Can't just bring up the hits, gotta include the misses as well (though it's still too early to declare the two above misses). 

 

Also, with more guys having success from Cuba, you won't see players signing for relatively smaller amounts like Puig or Chapman did, you'll have to invest more and take on bigger gambles.

 

China is still way far away from ever being a source of talent for MLB (if it ever happens), but I do think it's good for the O's get in on the ground floor there.  It's not like it is a major financial commitment.  It absolutely does not remotely make up for their lack of investment made in the DR and their complete avoidance of any international FAs who get more than a few hundred thousand to sign and their reluctance to spend up to the allowed amounts even if it means acquiring a lot more longshots rather than a couple more expensive signees.  That remains a huge black eye on the organization, for which they should constantly be called out and criticized.

[Chris B]

Can't use quote feature, but thanks Mackus for bringing up Tomas, who may not even start in Arizona this year. Socrates Brito is pushing him for a starting position, or at worst, a platoon.

 

I'm really interested in watching the Cuban market: 1. As teams spend more on them 2. As more Cubans defect 3. As the Cuban-US relations continue to improve.

 

Obama going to the Rays game in Havana in two weeks is a big stepping stone and will be important in what happens next.

[RShack]

While there are some hits with Cubans, as a group they have become anti-Moneyball... in many cases, you end up paying a lot of buck for not much bang... the tradition of Cuban baseball seems to attach a premium to the current guys...

 

If I was the O's, I'd figure out some way to encourage O's logo merchandise to be popular with young people in China... the cartoon bird is playful enough that it's in a different class than the city-initial caps... get'em while they're young...

 

As for the rest of it, why do people feel the need to complain like crazy when the O's do something cool?  Encouraging baseball in China is a cool thing to do.  If the MFY's or LAD's were the teams mentioned, people would be complaining about how that's yet another thing the O's should be doing if they were acting like leaders instead of lame followers... but, since it's not the MFY's doing it, but instead the O's, then somehow it's a bad idea.  

 

What they do and don't do in Latin America is a completely different topic... unless, of course, you have inside knowledge of how the org budget works... which you don't....

 

ps:  Is it still OK to say "Latin America"... or is there an updated term for that?

[Mike in STL]

 
How about Rusney Castillo for $10.3M per?  Yasmani Tomas for $11.4M? 
 
Can't just bring up the hits, gotta include the misses as well (though it's still too early to declare the two above misses). 
 
Also, with more guys having success from Cuba, you won't see players signing for relatively smaller amounts like Puig or Chapman did, you'll have to invest more and take on bigger gambles.
 
China is still way far away from ever being a source of talent for MLB (if it ever happens), but I do think it's good for the O's get in on the ground floor there.  It's not like it is a major financial commitment.  It absolutely does not remotely make up for their lack of investment made in the DR and their complete avoidance of any international FAs who get more than a few hundred thousand to sign and their reluctance to spend up to the allowed amounts even if it means acquiring a lot more longshots rather than a couple more expensive signees.  That remains a huge black eye on the organization, for which they should constantly be called out and criticized.

Well yeah, jury still out on Castillo and Tomas. Alex Guererro too.

I don't get the point of getting in on the ground floor in China though. For what? When a Chinese prospect shows actual potential in 2025 or later, if he's good enough. He'll, be a Yankee, Dodger, or Red Sock. The O's, if the team ideology is the same in ten years, they won't be in on the next big thing.

Is there a notion that the Orioles will get a discount for being faithful? Being a presence from the start in China? And that's the new Oriole way. Think they deserve a discount for everything. They wanted Davis to take a hometown discount. Dude is from and was drafted by Texas, and hometown discount is just not in the vocabulary these days.

Can't agree more about the lack of investment in real International FAs.

[RShack]

About China... there are *so* many people there that, while it will take a couple generations to get them up to speed, I'll bet there are a few guys over there who are just wired for baseball but don't know it yet...  

 

How you find them among so many people is a different matter...

[RShack]

Well yeah, jury still out on Castillo and Tomas. Alex Guererro too.

I don't get the point of getting in on the ground floor in China though. For what? When a Chinese prospect shows actual potential in 2025 or later, if he's good enough. He'll, be a Yankee, Dodger, or Red Sock. The O's, if the team ideology is the same in ten years, they won't be in on the next big thing.

Is there a notion that the Orioles will get a discount for being faithful? Being a presence from the start in China? And that's the new Oriole way. Think they deserve a discount for everything. They wanted Davis to take a hometown discount. Dude is from and was drafted by Texas, and hometown discount is just not in the vocabulary these days.

Can't agree more about the lack of investment in real International FAs.

 

Do you think the O's should ever do something new?  Or should they just follow whatever the MFY's and LAD's do?

 

As for your specific question about discounts... I have no idea whether they will get any discounts... but it's a basic tenet of Chinese culture that you honor long-standing relationships... so, any potential advantage over there would be a zillion times higher than it could be here where almost nobody cares about that stuff...

[Mackus]

I don't get the point of getting in on the ground floor in China though. For what?

What is the downside to doing so?  How much money do you possibly think they are spending by having a scout or two who occasionally heads over there?
 

I just don't get the criticism for this.  I don't think it's something deserving of great praise either.  It should be mentioned and then largely ignored.

[NewMarketSean]

There's nothing stopping the O's from developing talent in China AND in Latin America.

 

Latin America is where superstars are coming from regularly.

 

China is still trying to figure out how many innings there are in a game.

 

Where should the O's be focusing a majority of their resources?

[RShack]

There's nothing stopping the O's from developing talent in China AND in Latin America.

 

Latin America is where superstars are coming from regularly.

 

China is still trying to figure out how many innings there are in a game.

 

Where should the O's be focusing a majority of their resources?

 

You ask that question as if the O's are spending a ton in China at the cost of Latin America...  why would you think that?  

 

I have no news about their budget, but I bet the China resources are a penny or two for every $10 they spend in Latin America...

[Mackus]

Where should the O's be focusing a majority of their resources?

 

Obviously in Latin America.  This question suggests that you think they might be focusing a notable portion of their resources into China though, and I think that it overwhelmingly unlikely.

[Chris B]

This isn't a China vs. Dominican Republic debate, but it seems like that's where this thread is heading, which is just not correct.

[NewMarketSean]

Obviously in Latin America.  This question suggests that you think they might be focusing a notable portion of their resources into China though, and I think that it overwhelmingly unlikely.

 

Based on their history signing and developing players from LA, it appears they're not viewing it as a way to supplement the system with talent.

 

China may not be taking the spot of LA, but it does seem like there's been more of a focus on it for years.

[Pedro Cerrano]

This thread is pretty symbolic of everyone on this site's type of fandom. I have definitely noticed that.

[Mike in STL]

What is the downside to doing so?  How much money do you possibly think they are spending by having a scout or two who occasionally heads over there?

 
I just don't get the criticism for this.  I don't think it's something deserving of great praise either.  It should be mentioned and then largely ignored.

Just a poor allocation of resources. Pretty much what the O's do. Any number of scouts is too many. If they took the international market seriously, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

But they dont, so it just reeks of DD trying to prove he's smarter than everyone else. Evident by bringing the one guy in from China already last year.

[Mike in STL]

 
Do you think the O's should ever do something new?  Or should they just follow whatever the MFY's and LAD's do?
 
As for your specific question about discounts... I have no idea whether they will get any discounts... but it's a basic tenet of Chinese culture that you honor long-standing relationships... so, any potential advantage over there would be a zillion times higher than it could be here where almost nobody cares about that stuff...

I just want them to compete for international free agents that teams like the Yanks, Dodgers, among others are also interested in. But they continue to be flabbergasted by the amount of money thrown around when there are actually bargains with a hell of a lot more upside in the Latin areas.

If that's true about Chinese culture, maybe it means something.

All in all, not a big deal being in China.

Just bored, and driving chatter a bit while taking a long walk on this beautiful day.

[Mackus]

I think that's misplaced anger.

 

Criticizing their efforts in more traditional international markets is absolutely fair.  It should be shouted from the rooftops whenever possible.  But it seems crazy to me to think that anything they are doing in China is taking away from something they could do elsewhere. 

 

They don't do nearly enough elsewhere, but it's not because they've turned some of their attention towards China and just can't find the time or money to be more invested in the DR.

[RShack]

As for your specific question about discounts... I have no idea whether they will get any discounts... but it's a basic tenet of Chinese culture that you honor long-standing relationships... so, any potential advantage over there would be a zillion times higher than it could be here where almost nobody cares about that stuff...

 

I don't know about everyday people, but China's sports development ministry (or whatever they call it) will surely notice who comes over there first... and they will appreciate that for a long time... unlike us, China takes the long view...

 

True story:  Jimmy Carter is the prez who officially recognized China... some years after he was done being president, the guy who was running China at the time was talking with him and asked Jimmy if he had any favors to ask... Jimmy said yes... he explained that during the 1950's kids all over America gave pennies to help feed starving people in China... and they did it mostly through their church or Sunday school classes... so, Jimmy asked if they would please legalize Christianity and permit Bibles to be distributed within China... and China did it... not because they were big on religion or because they thought there would be some advantage in doing it... they did it because someone who had acted in a way that recognized China's importance asked them to... they had a relationship with him, and they honored it.   That's just how they roll... 

[RShack]

All in all, not a big deal being in China.

Just bored, and driving chatter a bit while taking a long walk on this beautiful day.

 

Well, OK then  

[BSLMikeLowe]

I've said this before....

 

While the interest in China is nice and all, they ought to be looking more closely at India. They have nearly as many people as China, over a billion. But the national sport in India is cricket....so in theory it would seem, given the similarities between the sports, that baseball might do well there both in terms of interest and coordination skills that might transfer over for growing kids.