Photo

Worley


  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

#1 BSLChrisStoner

BSLChrisStoner

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 150,774 posts

Posted 26 December 2015 - 08:29 AM

MASN: The "Vanimal" wants to attack hitters in Orioles' rotation



#2 SportsGuy

SportsGuy

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 91,979 posts
  • LocationBaltimore

Posted 31 January 2016 - 10:59 AM

BSL: Is Worley Actually A Good Option?

http://baltimorespor...ption-rotation/


  • BSLChrisStoner likes this

#3 Mike B

Mike B

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 35,620 posts
  • LocationTowson Md.

Posted 31 January 2016 - 11:08 AM

I think, he would likely be the guy, if no additions are made between now and OD.

However, no matter what the numbers may lead one to believe,  I don't think he is better than Tillman or even Gonzo.

His time with the Twins scare me a lot.  The difference between the two leagues is well documented.  If he is our fifth, we will be trading more prospects in July to get another if we are in the race.


@mikeghg

#4 SportsGuy

SportsGuy

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 91,979 posts
  • LocationBaltimore

Posted 31 January 2016 - 11:09 AM

I think, he would likely be the guy, if no additions are made between now and OD.
However, no matter what the numbers may lead one to believe, I don't think he is better than Tillman or even Gonzo.
His time with the Twins scare me a lot. The difference between the two leagues is well documented. If he is our fifth, we will be trading more prospects in July to get another if we are in the race.

His time with the Twins shows his floor and how low it can be.

That being said, it's also the extreme outlier to what he has done on his career. It was in a small sample size and he had some unlucky stats to go with it.

Coming to the ALE will be a test for him.



#5 fishteacher

fishteacher

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 26,194 posts
  • LocationHarrisburg, PA

Posted 31 January 2016 - 11:24 AM

I'm always for these types of moves/guys to bring in as a #5 role...He'll typically get to face a non-ace, the expectations on him will be a bit lower I THINK given the idea that he could always be moved to the pen as a multiple-innings guy if the starter role doesn't work out.  My concern is the lack of what DD has done with the top or middle of the rotation.  

 

Expecting Tillman to bounce right back from last year's shit show is kinda silly, but I DO expect better from Tillman (call it a hunch).

 

Ubaldo is who he is, and you just don't know what you'll get from him besides irritation and headaches.

 

Gausman, while we expect him to break out, given our track record with young pitching, how sure ARE WE (you) that he truly WILL breakout this season?  I hope he worked hard on that 3rd or 4th pitch, because just throwing fastballs ain't gonna get it done.  

 

I think Miggy will continue to be who HE IS, and is probably one of the most under-appreciated pitchers we've ever had in the organization.  He's nothing flashy, but solid.

 

Worley....he's been talked about.

 

I really can't figure out how or WHY we have not addressed our pitching issues with another starter.  We need at least 6 or 7 of them ready to go between the ML club and AAA.  Gallardo would be fine I guess..just tired of rolling my eyes at the moves we make when it comes to FAs most of the time.


I'm here to do two things...chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I'm all out of bubblegum. ~ Roddy Piper
@therealjfisher

#6 Mike B

Mike B

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 35,620 posts
  • LocationTowson Md.

Posted 31 January 2016 - 12:12 PM

I realize you are a numbers man, and also you have never been a Tillman guy, but his body of work from 2012 to 2014, was good.  

 

The peripherals, may say otherwise, but his results got it done.

 

I saw Chris in ST last year and he clearly was not in shape,  His early season was bad, he seemed to get on a role as the AS break neared, twisted his ankle, covering first, I think against the Nats and his second half was bad.  2015, was a bad year, no question, but I am not sure how, you can say it is silly to not think he COULD, have a good year in 2016.

 

I think he lands somewhere between 2012-14 and last year..   


@mikeghg

#7 SportsGuy

SportsGuy

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 91,979 posts
  • LocationBaltimore

Posted 31 January 2016 - 03:04 PM

I think Tillman is fine.

He's nothing special though.

#8 Mike B

Mike B

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 35,620 posts
  • LocationTowson Md.

Posted 31 January 2016 - 03:56 PM

I think Tillman is fine.

He's nothing special though.

Agree on that.  He is a guy who when he is on, is a low 2 type and when he is not a 4.

 

For the record, if he is pitching well as the deadline approaches, and the team is not in contention,, he would be the second guy I would trade.  The first is Wieters.


@mikeghg

#9 FFH

FFH

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,567 posts

Posted 31 January 2016 - 04:34 PM

Worley is a good option as the number 6 starter.  If they need to bring him up to take the ball for a little while, that isn't a problem and he will do well.

 

Longer than that, and he will regress in season.



#10 dude

dude

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 11,513 posts
  • LocationColumbus, GA

Posted 31 January 2016 - 05:14 PM

Worley is a good option as the number 6 starter.  If they need to bring him up to take the ball for a little while, that isn't a problem and he will do well.

 

Longer than that, and he will regress in season.

 

Agree with the bolded....but the second part...'bring him up'...implies from AAA? I believe he's out of options per an earlier report.

 

Worley is the kind of guy you make the long man and 6th starter. You have guys like Wright and Wilson at AAA. You can get another experienced guy on a MiL contract with an opt out in July.

 

Worley felt like Bundy insurance to me. I just assumed when they got him, what they knew about Bundy would put him on the 60-day and Worley would fill that bullpen role into the season.  With the (I guess) positive reports on Bundy....the Orioles have something of a numbers issue in the bullpen...again.

 

If you put Worley and Bundy in the bullpen.....DOD is there....Brach....Matusz....Roe is out of options and obviously Britton....so Givens goes to AAA? 7 guys without options and the Orioles still only have one LHed non-closer option. 

 

So you have pitchers like Givens, Garcia, Wright, Wilson and McFarland at AAA.

 

I Worley is the 5th starter....you certainly are adding a lot of risk to an already suspect starting profile.


  • BSLBobPhelan and CA-ORIOLE like this

#11 FFH

FFH

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,567 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 01:42 PM

Agree with the bolded....but the second part...'bring him up'...implies from AAA? I believe he's out of options per an earlier report.

 

Worley is the kind of guy you make the long man and 6th starter. You have guys like Wright and Wilson at AAA. You can get another experienced guy on a MiL contract with an opt out in July.

 

Worley felt like Bundy insurance to me. I just assumed when they got him, what they knew about Bundy would put him on the 60-day and Worley would fill that bullpen role into the season.  With the (I guess) positive reports on Bundy....the Orioles have something of a numbers issue in the bullpen...again.

 

If you put Worley and Bundy in the bullpen.....DOD is there....Brach....Matusz....Roe is out of options and obviously Britton....so Givens goes to AAA? 7 guys without options and the Orioles still only have one LHed non-closer option. 

 

So you have pitchers like Givens, Garcia, Wright, Wilson and McFarland at AAA.

 

I Worley is the 5th starter....you certainly are adding a lot of risk to an already suspect starting profile.

That was a player profile, not a specific comment regarding player status.

Worley should have been signed to a minor league contract. 

Givens at AAA is bad, simply because he should be on the ML roster, otherwise you are risking regression.



#12 Dr. FLK

Dr. FLK

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 01:43 PM

Going into the season with a rotation of Tillman, Ubaldo, Gaus, Miggy, and Worley would be just dreadfully disappointing.  We've done nothing but lose our best pitcher and go with a combination of garbage, mediocrity, and hope.



#13 BaltBird 24

BaltBird 24

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,487 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 01:47 PM

Going into the season with a rotation of Tillman, Ubaldo, Gaus, Miggy, and Worley would be just dreadfully disappointing.  We've done nothing but lose our best pitcher and go with a combination of garbage, mediocrity, and hope.

 

You make it sound so..... perfect. 

 

Let's get ready to roll  in 2016, boys. 


  • Dr. FLK likes this

#14 Matt_P

Matt_P

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,552 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:13 PM

Going into the season with a rotation of Tillman, Ubaldo, Gaus, Miggy, and Worley would be just dreadfully disappointing.  We've done nothing but lose our best pitcher and go with a combination of garbage, mediocrity, and hope.

 

I don't know what you want. The Os payroll is at $130M. They're beyond tapped-out. You want them to keep Davis and O'Day? Then there's only going to be so much money available for the pitching. Expecting the Os to have a payroll of $150M is unrealistic.



#15 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 57,232 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:17 PM

We've done nothing but lose our best pitcher and go with a combination of garbage, mediocrity, and hope.

 

And hand out the 2nd biggest FA contract to a position player this offseason.

 

Re-signing Davis doesn't count as standing pat.  He was not on the team when the offseason began, and now he is.

 

It would be very disappointing if we can't find any additional SP depth to add to our rotation, but that's not equivalent to having an empty offseason.



#16 Dr. FLK

Dr. FLK

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:22 PM

I don't know what you want. The Os payroll is at $130M. They're beyond tapped-out. You want them to keep Davis and O'Day? Then there's only going to be so much money available for the pitching. Expecting the Os to have a payroll of $150M is unrealistic.

 

I just don't see how that kind of a rotation can be expected to compete.  They currently have 121 mil committed to 2016, so they certainly could have afforded Fister for this year and been around 130.  And, they could still afford someone like Cashner (if they can work out a deal).  So no, I don't expect them to go to 150 mil (wasn't expecting Price and Davis).  But, I do expect them to do something to improve this debacle of a rotation.



#17 Dr. FLK

Dr. FLK

    All Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:23 PM

And hand out the 2nd biggest FA contract to a position player this offseason.

 

Re-signing Davis doesn't count as standing pat.  He was not on the team when the offseason began, and now he is.

 

It would be very disappointing if we can't find any additional SP depth to add to our rotation, but that's not equivalent to having an empty offseason.

 

You're right.  And I'm glad they did something.  I just don't think they have any shot at competing for anything with the current rotation.



#18 Mackus

Mackus

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 57,232 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:30 PM

You're right.  And I'm glad they did something.  I just don't think they have any shot at competing for anything with the current rotation.

 

I wouldn't expect the rotation to be an asset, but it wouldn't be the craziest thing ever if we got below average production from this group, and that's all we need to compete.  If the rotation is not a dumpster fire, I think we'll compete.  I don't think we'll be in the mix for the division unless we get above average performance, and I agree that's looking pretty far fetched. 

 

I don't think Fister would be an improvement over Worley, personally.  Gallardo is probably a good bet to be a 95 or so ERA+ guy who can eat innings, but that's not something I'm eager to commit 4 years at $12-15M and lose a draft pick for.  I would bet on Latos or Cashner being risks worth taking and hope we can add one of them.

 

I don't think there was ever the possibility of a competitive 2016 scenario without needing to count on passable performances from multiple SP who were bad in 2015.



#19 Matt_P

Matt_P

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,552 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:39 PM

They currently have 121 mil committed to 2016.

 

I presume you're using Baseball Reference signed numbers?

 

Generally, those numbers don't include Matusz and Britton as they haven't agreed on a deal for them yet. In some cases, it doesn't include minimum wage guys like Gausman and Schoop.

 

When you include all of that stuff, it goes up to the $130M range.

 

I just don't see how that kind of a rotation can be expected to compete. And, they could still afford someone like Cashner (if they can work out a deal). So no, I don't expect them to go to 150 mil (wasn't expecting Price and Davis).  But, I do expect them to do something to improve this debacle of a rotation.

 

I don't think even Price really does much for this rotation. Do you really feel comfortable relying on Gonzo, Tillman and Jimenez? Is Gausman really a lock? Ok, Vorley is slightly worse than the aforementioned three, but we're talking about a rotation with Gausman, 3 #5 starters and a replacement level starter. Adding a guy like Fister would be replacing that replacement level start with another back-end guy. It's an upgrade, but you're still pretty much relying on prayer.

 

But agreed, this rotation isn't very good. That's what happens when you spend your cash on Davis and O'Day.



#20 JordanKough

JordanKough

    HOF

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,904 posts

Posted 01 February 2016 - 02:43 PM

... we're talking about a rotation with Gausman, 3 #5 starters and a replacement level starter. Adding a guy like Fister would be replacing that replacement level start with another back-end guy. It's an upgrade, but you're still pretty much relying on prayer.

 

This feels a bit dramatic...not even talking upside, I think we're at least talking about 3 guys that sit somewhere between 3 and 4, and even that's a debatably low ranking. They aren't great, but Tillman, Gonzo and Jiminez are not 3 #5 starters...


  • FFH likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users


Our Sponsors


 width=  width=  width=