970 replies to this topic

[wickedsolo]

Regarding Hargreaves vs Ramsey... Ramsey has the upside, but I've watched a lot of FSU games and while I think he is physically impressive, his talent leaves some to be desired and he is very "grabby". Hargreaves isn't as physically impressive, but he is just about as sound of a technician as you can get at corner. I'd prefer Hargreaves to Ramsey.

[Biggsy]

Regarding Hargreaves vs Ramsey...Ramsey has the upside, but I've watched a lot of FSU games and while I think he is physically impressive, his talent leaves some to be desired and he is very "grabby".Hargreaves isn't as physically impressive, but he is just about as sound of a technician as you can get at corner. I'd prefer Hargreaves to Ramsey.

Realistically I don't know that we'll be in position for either come next April. We're about to make our glorious run to get to about 6-10 or 7-9. And completely screw ourselves out of an impact rookie. Haha

[wickedsolo]

Regarding Hargreaves vs Ramsey...Ramsey has the upside, but I've watched a lot of FSU games and while I think he is physically impressive, his talent leaves some to be desired and he is very "grabby".Hargreaves isn't as physically impressive, but he is just about as sound of a technician as you can get at corner. I'd prefer Hargreaves to Ramsey.

Realistically I don't know that we'll be in position for either come next April. We're about to make our glorious run to get to about 6-10 or 7-9. And completely screw ourselves out of an impact rookie. Haha

If that's the case then I hope the look at Leonard Floyd or Laquan Treadwell.

[Mackus]

Realistically I don't know that we'll be in position for either come next April. We're about to make our glorious run to get to about 6-10 or 7-9. And completely screw ourselves out of an impact rookie. Haha

 

I would imagine if you go back and look at drafts over the past 10 years that there isn't a whole lot of difference between drafting 4th or 5th compared to drafting 10th or 11th.  Certainly doubt there is enough of a difference to say that we're screwed out of an impact rookie if we get a couple extra wins during the season.

[SportsGuy]

I would imagine if you go back and look at drafts over the past 10 years that there isn't a whole lot of difference between drafting 4th or 5th compared to drafting 10th or 11th.  Certainly doubt there is enough of a difference to say that we're screwed out of an impact rookie if we get a couple extra wins during the season.

Ngata and ODB(just to name a few) say hi.

[Biggsy]

I would imagine if you go back and look at drafts over the past 10 years that there isn't a whole lot of difference between drafting 4th or 5th compared to drafting 10th or 11th. Certainly doubt there is enough of a difference to say that we're screwed out of an impact rookie if we get a couple extra wins during the season.

That's also not exactly a great barometer. Look at who is drafting. You have teams like Oakland that were terrible for years in the top. And you have teams that draft for needs. Yes, you get certain players that get drafted later that are great. But if you have guys like Ramsey and Bosa, you'd rather be picking 5th than picking 11th. The higher your pick the better chance you have of getting the guy you want. It was poorly written sarcasm though.

[Biggsy]

Ngata and ODB(just to name a few) say hi.

A.J. Green, Patrick Peterson, Calvin Johnson and Kahlil Mack all say hi. (To name a few.) We could go back and forth all night. Point is talent is all over the draft board, the higher your choice, the more choices you have.

And moreso, the better options you have in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

[SportsGuy]

A.J. Green, Patrick Peterson, Calvin Johnson and Kahlil Mack all say hi. (To name a few.) We could go back and forth all night. Point is talent is all over the draft board, the higher your choice, the more choices you have.

And moreso, the better options you have in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Of course.  The point is that just because they win 6 games instead of 4, it doesn't mean they end up with a lesser player.

[bnickle]

Its not just potentially getting the same type of caliber player but its the value of the pick itself. Now, we might not trade it, but the 5th pick in a draft is a good bit more valuable than the 10th. I'm much more hopeful of us coming away with  an impact player inside the top 10 vs outside of it. Especially, if it's 5th or 6th. 

[Mackus]

Trade value is a fair point. Can get much more moving from 5 to 12 than 10 to 12, for example.

I don't really think we are dramatically more likely to find a stud at 5 than 10 though. Yes, you have more options to pick from, but looking back it seems like there isn't a ton of difference. Some years there is, some not. Would obviously rather be drafting 5th than 10th, but not at the expense of actively tanking during the season. Higher pick is a silver lining, not the goal on Sundays.

[Mike in STL]

Watching some tape on Laquan Treadwell. 

 

Meh. If he's the cream of the crop, this WR class must be bad. Quintessential primadonna WR. Bitches for a flag on a lot of incomplete passes. Throws his arms up when you don't throw him the ball. 

 

As far as playing the position... He runs a lot of short to intermediate routes. Not bad hands. Doesn't make contested catches at a rate that is advertised. He has ability to make plays in the open field, but is often brought down on first contact. He's not doing to break tackles, or drag defenders for tough extra yards. He fakes it at run blocking. He appears that he wants to be physical, but really wants no part of it, and it shows. 

 

Odell Beckham, Amari Cooper, he certainly is not. 

[GabeFerguson]

Watching some tape on Laquan Treadwell. 

 

Meh. If he's the cream of the crop, this WR class must be bad. Quintessential primadonna WR. Bitches for a flag on a lot of incomplete passes. Throws his arms up when you don't throw him the ball. 

 

As far as playing the position... He runs a lot of short to intermediate routes. Not bad hands. Doesn't make contested catches at a rate that is advertised. He has ability to make plays in the open field, but is often brought down on first contact. He's not doing to break tackles, or drag defenders for tough extra yards. He fakes it at run blocking. He appears that he wants to be physical, but really wants no part of it, and it shows. 

 

Odell Beckham, Amari Cooper, he certainly is not. 

He's a different type of receiver than Cooper or Beckham, but the talent is certainly there. He has the ability to make the circus catch and the contested catch over DBs.  I'm not sure if he is the top talent in this class, I prefer Corey Coleman by a hair. Both will be excellent NFL WRs.

[Bmore Irish]

Will Fuller, if he's there in the 2nd, could be worth a look.

[Mackus]

Yep...it's a scout off.

[Biggsy]

He's a different type of receiver than Cooper or Beckham, but the talent is certainly there. He has the ability to make the circus catch and the contested catch over DBs. I'm not sure if he is the top talent in this class, I prefer Corey Coleman by a hair. Both will be excellent NFL WRs.

I prefer Tyler Boyd over both.

[Mike in STL]

Yep...it's a scout off.

[SportsGuy]

Speaking of Cooper, is he still nothing special?(or whatever wording some of you guys used) 

[GabeFerguson]

Speaking of Cooper, is he still nothing special?(or whatever wording some of you guys used) 

He's not in the Odell Beckham class, but he is clearly a #1 WR in the NFL. I don't know if anyone was saying anything different.

[GabeFerguson]

I prefer Tyler Boyd over both.

He's slow

[Mackus]

Just thought I'd have some fun with the search function during my lunch break...

 

Gabe:

Cooper is good, but he isn't that good. No way I would trade up for him. If one of the top 3 WRs somehow slides outside of the first 15 picks or so I would be more interested in moving up.

 

 

Nickle:

Besides, Cooper isn't that type of WR anyway. Talented, but not elite. Some even have him behind White at this point.

 

 

Pappas:

I think Cooper will be a very, very good pro WR, perhaps All-Pro, but we have too many needs to lose high picks.

Would you rather have Cooper and lose, say, picks 1, 2, and 3 this year and a 1 & 2 next year or draft players like...

• TE-Maxx Williams at #26
• WR-Breshad Perriman at #58
• RB-David Johnson at #90

and players next draft that would be like:

• WR-Devin Smith
• CB-Alex Carter

Five players or Cooper? Could go either way, and I see the temptation, but I tend to prefer attempting to fill multiple needs than moving up.

 

 

Gabe:

Even if Cooper was as good as Julio Jones, which I will say with confidence he is not, the end result may not be pretty. The Falcons and Redskins are great examples of what happens when a team mortgages the future for 1 player. They lack depth and if other draft picks don't pan out the team crumbles.

 

Now the Ravens may have the FO to pull off a trade like this by making savvy FA pick-ups and playing the comp pick game better than anyone. Even still it will strain the team's resources for a player who may or may not be a massive difference maker.

 

I don't mind trading up a few draft picks and sacrificing a 3rd or 4th round pick to do so, but anytime the cost is two or more high draft picks and multiple late picks I lose interest.

 

 

Dupin:

Cooper lacks the elite athleticism to be a game changer.  He'll be a solid player, but he's not the type of guy you go out of your way to get.