413 replies to this topic

[RShack]

You are out of your mind with this.

 

What did I say that's not true?

[BSLChrisStoner]

What did I say that's not true?

 

Everything imo. I'm not going to change your opinion, you won't change mind. Not interested in discussing it.

[bnickle]

I'll tell you something else. Weber said earlier that I'd be pissed if someone did that to my teammate. I would. I would also give Utley a high 5 if he was my teammate for making sure we just tied the game up in the 7th inning of a playoff game. That's baseball.

[RShack]

Everything imo. I'm not going to change your opinion, you won't change mind. Not interested in discussing it.

 

OK, don't discuss it... but go watch the video again and see if there's anything there that doesn't comport with what I said... the camera from the 1B side makes it clear that Utley was aiming at Tejada's feet, he waited to slide until he knew where he expected them to be... the camera view from LF shows how the play evolved over the course of just a split-second...

[BSLChrisStoner]

OK, don't discuss it... but go watch the video again and see if there's anything there that doesn't comport with what I said... the camera from the 1B side makes it clear that Utley was aiming at Tejada's feet, he waited to slide until he knew where he expected them to be... the camera view from LF shows how the play evolved over the course of just a split-second...

 

Yes, I watched the video.. had my opinions, and then had them confirmed by numerous people in the game who saw the same things I did... all completely disagreeing with your take.

[RShack]

Yes, I watched the video.. had my opinions, and then had them confirmed by numerous people in the game who saw the same things I did... all completely disagreeing with your take.

 

People are reacting emotionally, based on the sad outcome of the play... which the TV people are encouraging because that's what they do on TV these days... they focus on emotion, and they do whatever they can to amp-up emotion...

 

Notice what the TV people did *not* do... they did *not* review the play in super-slo-mo, analyzing what happened, frame-by-frame, as it happened over the course of just a split-second.  Why?  Because that doesn't feed emotional reactions... plus, it involves some actual effort.   Meanwhile, they expect Utley to have done that in real time, without the benefit of slo-mo review, and to have somehow magically adjusted his body accordingly...

[BSLChrisStoner]

Enjoy the last word Shack.

[Russ]

Utley hit him too high.  He didn't get down and hit him in the feet or calves and he hit him with his hip/side.  That's what was wrong with it.

[mweb08]

There's no justification for that "slide." I can't even take anyone seriously that acts like that's part of the game.

[Russ]

Yeah. Taking out the fielder's feet is part of the game. A rolling hip check isn't.

[RShack]

Utley hit him too high.  He didn't get down and hit him in the feet or calves and he hit him with his hip/side.  That's what was wrong with it.

 

His hip didn't touch him...

 

http://m.mlb.com/vid...ery=utley+slide

[Russ]

Looks like the hip to me. My point is you aren't supposed to be putting your center mass into the legs.

[RShack]

Yeah. Taking out the fielder's feet is part of the game. A rolling hip check isn't.

 

You're right, it's not... it used to be, but we haven't seen it in years...

 

http://m.mlb.com/vid...Willie+Randolph

 

I can't find one of Frank doing one, but he did it like this... but only when necessary...

 

[bnickle]

Utley hit him too high.  He didn't get down and hit him in the feet or calves and he hit him with his hip/side.  That's what was wrong with it.

It was high because it was late. It wasn't like he half slid or tried to pull a Albert Belle or went spikes up. When I hear the term high slide I generally think of kicking your feet up or spiking. Yes, it was high, but thats because he started late because Tejada was at the back of the bag coming across. He started late because his intent was to break up the DP within reach of 2b, which he was despite his hand going over top of the bag. Shack is right that there is no rule about starting your slide at a certain time. You just have to be within reach of the bag and Utley still was. The fact that Tejada got hurt is the only reason he was suspended and its the only reason there was any discussion. 

[Russ]

Utley hit him too high.  He didn't get down and hit him in the feet or calves and he hit him with his hip/side.  That's what was wrong with it.

It was high because it was late. It wasn't like he half slid or tried to pull a Albert Belle or went spikes up. When I hear the term I slide I think of kicking your feet up or spiking. Yes, it was high but thats because he started late. He started late because his intent was to break up the DP within reach of 2b, which he was despite his hand going over top of the bag. 

You are right in everything you are saying here, but the runner has to get down even if it's late. I don't think Utley should be suspended or that it's even a dirty play really, but injury risk is high when you hit a fielder like that. You have to get down and I think he could've made a better effort.

[Russ]

And you have to hit the fielder with your legs so there's some give there.

[RShack]

... but injury risk is high when you hit a fielder like that. 

 

If carpenters made $millions per year, I bet construction sites would get a whole lot safer too  

[Russ]

... but injury risk is high when you hit a fielder like that. 

 
If carpenters made $millions per year, I bet construction sites would get a whole lot safer too  

Sure. I am not sure why you would put a player in that position though. I get Branden's point that it was late and couldn't be avoided. He may be right.

[DJ MC]

If you don't get down, it's not a slide. It's a tackle.

[bnickle]

You are right in everything you are saying here, but the runner has to get down even if it's late. I don't think Utley should be suspended or that it's even a dirty play really, but injury risk is high when you hit a fielder like that. You have to get down and I think he could've made a better effort.

I dont have a rule book in front of me but yeah, if you go by the rulebook from what I've known Im not sure why he was suspended. He was within reach of the bag. As far as I know, there is no rule that says you have to get down at a certain point before you get to the bag. He could have touched that bag. His hand clearly went just over the top of it. Now, yeah if he takes one more step he's probably not ever going to be able to reach the bag.

 

 

Ill tell you what the ump likely saw in real time. He saw him not only reach for the bag, but probably even thought he touched the bag.