5819 replies to this topic

[NewMarketSean]

Gun control is an issue that needs to be worked out. The bigger issue IMO is what is making these mostly young men/ boys want to commit mass murder.

It's a combination of things. This monster's mother said he had a really bad temper and flew into rage a lot over video games. Apparently the inciting incident that kicked off this massacre was his grandmother shutting off the wi-fi. The internet allows disturbed (young) people to find each other and enflame their hate. Who knows what kind of other mental issues he had.

 

So take all of that stuff, all that anger, all those mental problems, and add an AR to it. Recipe for disaster.

 

I agree that this country has a mental illness problem it doesn't want to confront, but the ease of access for guns in many states is basically dropping weapons into the laps of unwell people. You don't let toddlers play with knives; we shouldn't let everyone have free access to ANY weapon, much less an AR style weapon.

 

I doubt this shooting moves the needle at all. The gun lobby is hunkered down and the calls for gun control will die  down in a week or so until the next mass murder.

 

This is America. Everything that's come before has led us to this.

[Old Man]

So Ive learned one of the problems, you can legally order a replacement gun part online "to repair" your own gun/rifle. Some do this.

 

However, the ones that dont obey the laws, just order different parts from different sellers and presto, you have all of your pieces to build an illegal non serialized gun.

 

Throw in 3d printers, and the ability to make throw away guns.

 

Laws like HR-8 only work for those intending to obey the law.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

It's a combination of things. This monster's mother said he had a really bad temper and flew into rage a lot over video games. Apparently the inciting incident that kicked off this massacre was his grandmother shutting off the wi-fi. The internet allows disturbed (young) people to find each other and enflame their hate. Who knows what kind of other mental issues he had.

 

So take all of that stuff, all that anger, all those mental problems, and add an AR to it. Recipe for disaster.

 

I agree that this country has a mental illness problem it doesn't want to confront, but the ease of access for guns in many states is basically dropping weapons into the laps of unwell people. You don't let toddlers play with knives; we shouldn't let everyone have free access to ANY weapon, much less an AR style weapon.

 

I doubt this shooting moves the needle at all. The gun lobby is hunkered down and the calls for gun control will die  down in a week or so until the next mass murder.

 

This is America. Everything that's come before has led us to this.

As far as Im concerned all of these AR style weapons can go away unless you are military or law enforcement. No average citizen should own one, let alone be allowed to walk around in public with one. Same thing for body armor. Military and law enforcement only. Again though, I  also want to  focus on the mental health, the depersonalization of others , and  desensitization that is the cause of this behavior.

[Old Man]

As far as Im concerned all of these AR style weapons can go away unless you are military or law enforcement. No average citizen should own one, let alone be allowed to walk around in public with one. Same thing for body armor. Military and law enforcement only. Again though, I  also want to  focus on the mental health, the depersonalization of others , and  desensitization that is the cause of this behavior.

but they wont all go away, thugs will still have theirs.

 

Im more concerned with things like bump stocks that turn them into full blown machine guns. no more semi automatic, which is bad enough.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

but they wont all go away, thugs will still have theirs.

Im more concerned with things like bump stocks that turn them into full blown machine guns. no more semi automatic, which is bad enough.

I dont think its realistic to think you'll get all of them back but stop selling them already.

[Old Man]

I dont think its realistic to think you'll get all of them back but stop selling them already.

time like this, gun shops sell out, and folks get scared they are going to crack down on them.

 

I think we have bigger issues, why is gun violence the first thing people do. I mean, dude walks in dollar general and the manager asks him to mark up, take my gun out and shot the person.

 

Highly decorated military vet after 5 tours in iran/iraq gets shot in baltimore visiting the local store for a pack of gum.

 

car cruising through PG county in the day time, open sunroof and dude stands up and starts randomly firing with 2 handguns like something out of the movies.

 

Have we made our movies and video games too violent?

 

I grew up with people yelling that Tom and Jerry was too violent, I dont recall ever trying to pull one of their pranks.

[mweb08]

Other countries have violent video games and movies. The difference is the access to guns.

Same with mental health issues, but on that one I think there's plenty of reason to think we have a more significant issue than in many of the countries we get compared to.

[Mike in STL]

Yankees using their massive Twitter platform to educate their followers with statistics related to gun violence, rather than live updates during their game.

[Dupin]

So Ive learned one of the problems, you can legally order a replacement gun part online "to repair" your own gun/rifle. Some do this.

 

However, the ones that dont obey the laws, just order different parts from different sellers and presto, you have all of your pieces to build an illegal non serialized gun.

 

Throw in 3d printers, and the ability to make throw away guns.

 

Laws like HR-8 only work for those intending to obey the law.

 

Sure, a law wouldn't be perfect and wouldn't eliminate that problem.  But it would mitigate the problem by raising the barrier for entry.  It takes more effort to self-build a gun.  If you're determined enough sure you can do it, but those aren't what is causing the problem and it's a nonsensical argument gun nuts throw around to obfuscate the issue.

[Old Man]

Sure, a law wouldn't be perfect and wouldn't eliminate that problem.  But it would mitigate the problem by raising the barrier for entry.  It takes more effort to self-build a gun.  If you're determined enough sure you can do it, but those aren't what is causing the problem and it's a nonsensical argument gun nuts throw around to obfuscate the issue.

Im not a gun nut, while I do support the right to bear arms.

 

Banning crap in this country just doesnt work. Check out prohibition, how did that work out?

 

Hard to compare this country to others, as the middle class here is doing pretty well for themselves.

 

I lived in England. 50% of the country is on the dole, most families had 1 vehicle, not 2-3-4. They walk, bike, train and subway to get around. 

 

What England had going for it, was strong gun laws, to the point, if you rob somebody with a knife, you got 2-3 years, if you used a gun, you got 50 years. That was a couple of decades ago.

 

Now adays guns more common in England, to the point, they have armed their bobbies and they now have to deal with active shooters in the UK with ak-47 types. Granted not to the extent we have here.

[Mackus]

Sounds like the police department in Uvalde needs to be completely disbanded.  The "good guy with a gun" theory is being exposed as completely naive.

[NewMarketSean]

time like this, gun shops sell out, and folks get scared they are going to crack down on them.

 

I think we have bigger issues, why is gun violence the first thing people do. I mean, dude walks in dollar general and the manager asks him to mark up, take my gun out and shot the person.

 

Highly decorated military vet after 5 tours in iran/iraq gets shot in baltimore visiting the local store for a pack of gum.

 

car cruising through PG county in the day time, open sunroof and dude stands up and starts randomly firing with 2 handguns like something out of the movies.

 

Have we made our movies and video games too violent?

 

I grew up with people yelling that Tom and Jerry was too violent, I dont recall ever trying to pull one of their pranks.

 

It sounds like you want to blame everything except the most obvious issue.

 

Every country has crazy people. Every country plays violent video games, watches violent movies. We aren't unique in that regard. It's the ease of access to guns that is the problem. Guns are a birthright in this country. Until we start to think about that -- and what it is doing to our country -- nothing will change.

 

And then there's the mental illness excuse. Abbott mentioned it in his first press conference. Blamed mental illness. But then a few weeks ago he rejected a $211M bill for mental illness. That tells you all you need to know about this. One side in this country wants nothing to change. In fact they want to make it easier to own and carry a gun. That is why we are where we are.

[mweb08]

Sounds like the police department in Uvalde needs to be completely disbanded. The "good guy with a gun" theory is being exposed as completely naive.

Yes. Part of the issue is the type of guns the killer had though. If he had a lesser type of gun, maybe these cops muster up the courage to do something.

[mweb08]

As for the 2nd Amendment and our gun culture, well the origins of that was rooted in this country having a vastly worse form of slavery than what existed across the Atlantic, and therefore the need to control the enslaved population.

https://www.npr.org/...e-2nd-amendment

Another reason why we shouldn't have a constitution written largely by and for enslavers.

[mweb08]

But at least many of those that do little to nothing to protect our children from gun violence are doing a lot to protect them from the massive threat of being taught actual American history.

[NewMarketSean]

But at least many of those that do little to nothing to protect our children from gun violence are doing a lot to protect them from the massive threat of being taught actual American history.

Yup. I want to make a very insensitive comment about CRT and "being groomed" that drives home a point that I feel needs to be made but I won't. Not now at least.

[Mackus]

The most annoying part of this is the police cowardice and lack of humanity will be what the "don't take my guns" people will be able to point to as the reason this happened, and rather than do things to try and prevent these shootings in the first place they'll just say that the police need more training and equipment and money.  Failing Upwards!  That should be the new police motto in Uvalde.  Every single one of these people need to resign (a major de-escalation from the initial suggestion for them in my mind).  I've ventured down a reddit rabbithole today and its just making me angrier and angrier.

[mweb08]

The most annoying part of this is the police cowardice and lack of humanity will be what the "don't take my guns" people will be able to point to as the reason this happened, and rather than do things to try and prevent these shootings in the first place they'll just say that the police need more training and equipment. Failing Upwards! That should be the new police motto in Uvalde. Every single one of these people need to resign (a major de-escalation from the initial suggestion for them in my mind). I've ventured down a reddit rabbithole today and its just making me angrier and angrier.

Yep. Unfortunately, that could be the police motto throughout much of America.

[Mackus]

I think some of these officers might go to prison.  They had active shooter training, and telling people to yell out for help is exactly the opposite of what you're supposed to do.  This isn't even "amputate the wrong leg" level of incompetence, it's "decapitate the patient to remove the tonsils".  I think this is criminally negligent and it led directly to a child's death.  Way worse than what that nurse did, and she's going to jail.  I guess its not nearly as bad as driving a woman to get an abortion after their ectopic pregnancy-by-rape, but its still pretty bad.

 

https://twitter.com/...0veCQ_oQsQ&s=19

 

It will be fun listening to the police spokespeople call this kid a liar.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The most annoying part of this is the police cowardice and lack of humanity will be what the "don't take my guns" people will be able to point to as the reason this happened, and rather than do things to try and prevent these shootings in the first place they'll just say that the police need more training and equipment and money. Failing Upwards! That should be the new police motto in Uvalde. Every single one of these people need to resign (a major de-escalation from the initial suggestion for them in my mind). I've ventured down a reddit rabbithole today and its just making me angrier and angrier.

I have chose not to read or listen to much on the events. 7 officers responded within 4 min and were inside but the shooter had already barricaded himself in a room. If thats wrong or if Im missing something let me know. Its easy to say rush into the room and take him out but thats likely a death sentence for any non tactical unit. I know thats what LE is supposed to do but most people are going to pause when told to partake in such a mission