285 replies to this topic

[Cisc-O's]

Same reasons why i can't stand spring training.

But you have to admit Jake Fox, should have started

[Biggsy]

To piggyback on McNulty's post, training camp and even the pre-season can be quite annoying because of the over analysis of every little thing. Quite frankly, what these guys do at quasi half speed against their own teammates is largely irrelevant. Film study, meetings, picking up the playbook, etc are the keys for the younger guys. For the veterans, get into football shape and stay healthy.

When it comes to pre-season games, young guys can get used to "game speed" and see what it's like to be "under the lights" so to speak. And for the veterans, it's all about getting through the pre-season healthy.

I honestly could care less about player X doing well in goal line drills or whatever. Honestly, I hold my breath until opening day, just hoping that no one key gets hurt.

I agree and disagree with this. I agree on the over analysis, and the knee jerk reactions that can come from a bad practice or preseason game here and there.

However, nothing is more important for rookies and 2nd year players. I can promise you that they are not going half speed. And as annoying as the over analysis can get, there is something to it if it's a frequent problem in practices and preseason games.

[Biggsy]

From what I've read for today, much of the same. The defensive front is dominating the LOS. Buck Allen seems to be winning the battle for the 3rd down back. Gilmore has laid some nasty blocks, but both he and Boyle have been invisible in the passing game. Asa Jackson seems to be showing poorly, but Arrington seems to be playing extremely well. Jimmy Smith has looked great. And WR's seem to be up and down.

[bnickle]

So if the DL is playing well, does that mean the OL isn't playing well. I mean I think our DL has the potential to be very good, but I also have some concerns about the OL. I think they'll be fine, but I absolutely believe Kubiaks system and gamecalling really helped them.

[JordanKough]

I'm not worried about the OL at all. As a team you expect Jernigan to beat Wagner and Zuttah in head to head matchups. If he's beating Yanda he's beating the best OG in the game. KO is right up there as well. If the health is there it's fine.

 

This is one of those instances where, scheme, adjustments, coaching matter. You're 100% right, the OL is good because of how they play as a unit as much as it is about any of their individual talent (outside of Yanda/KO). 

 

On the flip side, our front 7 (and even if you take out our ILB which are a huge asset), are going to be dominant this year against everyone (again caveating health) and could contend to be the best in all of the NFL. They did this against the run all of last year and if Jernigan is going to go get the passer...look out. This team is going to be really really good up front. 

[JordanKough]

Also, Matt Elam torn biceps, maybe...

[SportsGuy]

Very hard for me to believe that one of the highest graded out units in the NFL, the Ravens Oline, was because of Kubiak's play calling.

Everyone on the line, and except Zuttah, is above average for their position if they are healthy and Zuttah is average or so. You also have an excellent interior lineman back up in Urschel and Hurst looked a lot better to end the year thsn he did vs the Colts.

[bnickle]

Very hard for me to believe that one of the highest graded out units in the NFL, the Ravens Oline, was because of Kubiak's play calling.

Everyone on the line, and except Zuttah, is above average for their position if they are healthy and Zuttah is average or so. You also have an excellent interior lineman back up in Urschel and Hurst looked a lot better to end the year thsn he did vs the Colts.

It defintely helped. The gameplan and playcalling got the ball out of Joe's hands faster than ever in the passing game. In the running game, it's obvious what Kubiak/Dennison are able to do. THey've been producing good run blocking teams for over 15 years wherever they go. 

 

Yanda is a beast, we know that. Monroe didn't play particularly well last year when he did play. We know that. KO always showed potential, it was abiut putting it together. That said, I still have questions about just how good he is. Zuttah and Wagner and then when Hurst and Urschal came in is where I really get suspicious of how well Kubiak helped the OL. Bottom line, I really don't think Wagner is one of the best Tackles in football. I'm not sure he is much above average. I think he was not only helped by the system, but by playing next to the best OL in football.

[SportsGuy]

It defintely helped. The gameplan and playcalling got the ball out of Joe's hands faster than ever in the passing game. In the running game, it's obvious what Kubiak/Dennison are able to do. THey've been producing good run blocking teams for over 15 years wherever they go. 
 
Yanda is a beast, we know that. Monroe didn't play particularly well last year when he did play. We know that. KO always showed potential, it was abiut putting it together. That said, I still have questions about just how good he is. Zuttah and Wagner and then when Hurst and Urschal came in is where I really get suspicious of how well Kubiak helped the OL. Bottom line, I really don't think Wagner is one of the best Tackles in football. I'm not sure he is much above average. I think was not only helped by the system, but by playing next to the best OL in football.

Yea, I think you just greatly underrate the talent and give way too much credit to Kubiak.

Any system where you get the ball out quickly helps, we all agree with that.

Just as any line where you ask them to block for a while will get exposed.

All of that is common sense.

The Ravens know how to evaluate and develop OLine talent. These guys are that good.

[bnickle]

How quickly forget '13. And dont give me excuses. That was a shit show all the way around. Wagner looked completely lost when he played. SO his "development" was all him or how much credit do we give the two best who do it in the business. KOs performance got blamed on an injury. Gradkowski was bad, but lets see how he ends up graded in Denver now with Kubiak. Thats a fair comparision. If he does well though, its one more notch on Kubiak and Dennison's development belt. 

[SportsGuy]

How quickly forget '13. And dont give me excuses. That was a shit show all the way around. Wagner looked completely lost when he played. SO his "development" was all him or how much credit do we give the two best who do it in the business. KOs performance got blamed on an injury. Gradkowski was bad, but lets see how he ends up graded in Denver now with Kubiak. Thats a fair comparision. If he does well though, its one more notch on Kubiak and Dennison's development belt.

Lol...it doesn't matter the sport, you act as if young guys cant improve. Wagner clearly improved and impressed last year. I don't give a shit what system you are in, at some point football is about winning your one on one matchup and Wagner did that way more often than not last year.

Wagner barely played in 2013, so I'm not sure why you even bring that up. KO was excellent in his rookie year, without Kubiak. We know Monroe is solid when healthy and we know Yanda is great.

Now, if you want to say I want to see Wagner do it again, that's fair. I always think it's fair to want to see a player do it for more than 1 year. But that's a lot different than saying this line has a lot of question marks and it's a lot different than just blindly giving the credit to Kubiak.

[SportsGuy]

and btw, in 2013, Gino was one of the worst regulars in the NFL and that clearly effected the rest of the line.. Oher was terrible and both guards were hurt.

So yes, it's easy to forget about that year because it means nothing anymore.

We had healthy guards, a new center and 2 new tackles for an entire season.

It was a totally different line.

[bnickle]

And when Wagner regresses this year while Gradkowski improves well I have more ammo for.my arsenal. Pointless to debate this further, everyone knows Kubiak consistently produces some of the best OL play in football. You can come up with whatever excuses you want, but we went from the worst OL to one of the best in a year.Not only that, but he is one of the top offensive minds overall in the game.

I suspect the offense will be ok, but not as good as last year.More sacks, more Ints, definitely less YPC and yards per play. Im optimistic with Trestman, but he's not Kubiak.

[JordanKough]

Yup it kind of went under the radar that Yanda was recovering from surgery. He played poorly for the first six games. No KO. Shipley, Gradkowski. Monroe being inserted half way through the year.

 

If you can't see the difference between that group in addition the continuity we get this year, it just feels like you've got an agenda. 

 

This unit is very good. Maybe not elite, but definitely a 5-10 OL with reasonable expectations with the ability to go top 5 if things break right. And all that even without Kubiak. 

[JordanKough]

So Elam is hurt, perhaps for the year...but I looove what I'm hearing about Kendrick Lewis. 

 

If he's as advertised should be a great mentor for Brooks and I love the idea of a Lewis/Hill safety combo. 

[bnickle]

Nope. This unit will regress. Still should be ok , but regress. The offense as a whole will regress. I dare anybody to tell me they think our '15 will be as efficient as '14. Now, maybe we put up.more yards or less yards compared to last year. I'm talking straight efficiency. It's not even that bold a statement to say that Trestman won't get as much efficiency from the running game. Last year was also as efficient a season as you can get from Joe too. Ints and sacks way down.

[SportsGuy]

Nope. This unit will regress. Still should be ok , but regress. The offense as a whole will regress. I dare anybody to tell me they think our '15 will be as efficient as '14. Now, maybe we put up.more yards or less yards compared to last year. I'm talking straight efficiency. It's not even that bold a statement to say that Trestman won't get as much efficiency from the running game. Last year was also as efficient a season as you can get from Joe too. Ints and sacks way down.

So, you are saying the line won't be one of the top 10 or so graded out units in the entire NFL? Way to go out on s limb there!

Lol

[SportsGuy]

Yup it kind of went under the radar that Yanda was recovering from surgery. He played poorly for the first six games. No KO. Shipley, Gradkowski. Monroe being inserted half way through the year.
 
If you can't see the difference between that group in addition the continuity we get this year, it just feels like you've got an agenda. 
 
This unit is very good. Maybe not elite, but definitely a 5-10 OL with reasonable expectations with the ability to go top 5 if things break right. And all that even without Kubiak. 

BNick calls them excuses...it's funny. Guys missing a season and/or hurt or guys who just aren't with the team anymore are excuses.

Interesting theory.

Also, Gino could also be better because well, you know, he is more experienced and just older.

I am willing to bet that Gino won't be one of the worst players in the NFL in 2015 as he was in 2013.

Just like any extreme, betting against that extreme is always a smart way to go, especially when discussing the idea of a younger player gaining more experience.

And btw, I'm not saying Kubiak didn't have an impact. I'm saying that it wasn't all Kubiak like Branden is basically saying.

[bnickle]

So you admit Kubiak turned them into one of the best units in the NFL and you also expect them to regress now that he is gone. Thank you Shields. Exact same players, why can't they be just as good? Hell Monroe was about as bad as he could be last year, and superstar Wagner missed a number of games. Why not better?

[bnickle]

Don't put words in.my mouth. Of course it wasn't all Kubiak. He was by far the biggest factor and his track record bears that out. This OL and offense will regress this year. That's not even going out on a limb.