360 replies to this topic

[mweb08]

Look at it like this...

 

Say it was Cal's last-ever home AB... and say the other team was the MFY's who had already clinched and were playing a meaningless game... and say Cal came up in the bottom of the 9th for his last-ever AB at OPACY... and Girardi walked him.   What would you say about that?

 

That would be perceived as multiple times worse than Cito not using Mussina in the AS game. 

 

I do think arguing that a better pitcher should have been in there is reasonable, though.

[bnickle]

Again, Buck's normal strategy would probably be to pitch to Jeter there.

You've got a right-handed pitcher against a very shitty right-handed batter. You could walk Jeter and bring in Miller to face McCann and Teixeira, needing to get both out. Or, you pitch to Jeter and have Meek get him out, then walk McCann, and then either have Meek or Miller face Teixeira (switch hitter). You get to pitch to the worst hitters of the group and get to avoid the best hitter of the group (McCann 850 OPS in Sept, Jeter and Tex both below 600) right now.

I've got no doubt Buck pitches to Jeter in that situation, he very often avoids the intentional walk to set up a DP if he likes the matchups better.

Completely disagree. Maybe later in the game when he had already used his lefties or more RPs. But he had extra guys last night too. He would have walked Jeter and brought in a lefty.

[RShack]

That would be perceived as multiple times worse than Cito not using Mussina in the AS game. 

 

I do think arguing that a better pitcher should have been in there is reasonable, though.

 

And who pitches in the 12th?

[SBTarheel]

Peter Angelos "ruined" our lives. Jeter was annoying and he's overrated IMO, but after '97, his play against the O's barely matters in the grand scheme of things.

Exactly. And yea, overhyped, no question, but like I've said all week, when the sports news cycle is Ray Rice, Roger Goodell, Adrian Peterson, Oscar Pistorious...etc, I'll gladly take Jeter being overhyped for a few more days. 

[Mackus]

Completely disagree. Maybe later in the game when he had already used his lefties or more RPs. But he had extra guys last night too. He would have walked Jeter and brought in a lefty.

 

The only two lefties not yet in the game were Miller and Britton, unless we've add some AAA guy I'm forgetting.  Britton wouldn't come in until a save situation.  So it's Miller or nobody. 

 

I think he'd rather have Meek v Jeter and then Miller v Tex with 2 outs and 2 on than Miller v McCann with 2 on and 1 out.

[bnickle]

Well, then, the thing you should be bitching about is Buck not starting Flash at 3rd and Schoop at 2nd... because if they were playing, none of this would have happened. But were people having a cow about that? No, they were not. But somehow people think it's fine to get ready for the playoffs by handling the roster differently... *unless* it's about a big dramatic Jeter moment... then, all the sudden, what was OK until then, what's been OK for more than a few games, is suddenly not OK... and Buck is suddenly supposed to throw out his well-thought-out plan for using the BP?

Come on, guys, just think about this, will you please?

As I said, using our roster differently is being done to benefit our team as we head into the playoffs. There was no benefit to our team by choosing to pitch to Jeter there.


I'm not as worked up about it as my posts might indicate. It is what it is and I understand pitching to Jeter there. I just don't like it. And it has nothing to do with being spiteful of the Yanks or Jeter. It's just not something that would have been done unless it was essentially the situation it was last night.

[Mackus]

Also, regardless of which option Buck would have likely chosen, both are entirely reasonable approaches to that situation even if it wasn't the last Jeter at bat.  You can't possibly say picking one of two relatively equal options is disrespecting the game.  That's bullshit.

[bnickle]

Also, regardless of which option Buck would have likely chosen, both are entirely reasonable approaches to that situation even if it wasn't the last Jeter at bat. You can't possibly say picking one of two relatively equal options is disrespecting the game. That's bullshit.

They aren't close to equal options. Yes there would be situations where Buck pitches to Jeter but the overwhelming majority of the time he would be in a position to walk him.

[Mackus]

They aren't close to equal options. Yes there would be situations where Buck pitches to Jeter but the overwhelming majority of the time he would be in a position to walk him.

 

I don't agree with that.  Buck very frequently avoids the obvious intentional walk for the better matchup.  I know because I don't like that move most of the time, and if it was me in a neutral situation, I'd have walked Jeter.  But Buck quite often makes exactly the same decision he made last night in similar situations.  It's definitely not an overwhelming majority that he pitches to the hitter there.

[RShack]

As I said, using our roster differently is being done to benefit our team as we head into the playoffs. There was no benefit to our team by choosing to pitch to Jeter there.


I'm not as worked up about it as my posts might indicate. It is what it is and I understand pitching to Jeter there. I just don't like it. And it has nothing to do with being spiteful of the Yanks or Jeter. It's just not something that would have been done unless it was essentially the situation it was last night.

 

OK.  But the situation *was* what it was... you can't pretend it wasn't... and there's not a MLB manager alive who would've walked Jeter in that situation.

 

So, given that you've gotta pitch to him (or else be a Class-A douche who baseball would hate forever), then the only remaining question is whether it's worth completely screwing up the BP plan that Buck had mapped out to get ready for the playoffs, scrapping his idea of who he wasn't gonna use.  

 

Buck obviously thought that his plan was more important than screwing it up to (a) have somebody else pitch to Jeter *and* (b ) risking God-knows-what would happen to his plan in extra innings after he pulled Meek without getting at least a couple innings out of him.

 

As a raised-to-hate-the-Yankees guy, I can't believe people don't get this.  You're worrying about the wrong stuff. The WS is what matters, this piddly crap doesn't.

[mweb08]

And who pitches in the 12th?

 

Considering the expanded rosters, that shouldn't be the concern that it normally is. But the 12th is when someone like Meek should be considered, not the 10th. Use your better options early. 

[glorydays]

What happened to the respect we have for Buck? Do any of you really think that he was willing last night to throw away the respect he has gained from his players and fans over the past 3+ years just to give Jeter a final chance to go out a winner?? And no one responded to Shack's note that for the past week he has been working in bench players to give his regulars some rest. Could we not say we have lost 4 of the last 7 games because of that and therefore threw away home field advantage??

[SBTarheel]

Let's see how real this "outrage" is after folks see tonight's lineup...

 

you think he wasn't trying to win last night, wait til you see this lineup!!

[DJ MC]

Let's see how real this "outrage" is after folks see tonight's lineup...

 

you think he wasn't trying to win last night, wait til you see this lineup!!

 

Spoiler alert: I'm in Toronto, set to play third, and a couple of the girls who work the phones in the office are starting in left and center field. I also think I saw Bill Stetka walking out to the bullpen doing arm stretches.

[SBTarheel]

Spoiler alert: I'm in Toronto, set to play third, and a couple of the girls who work the phones in the office are starting in left and center field. I also think I saw Bill Stetka walking out to the bullpen doing arm stretches.

Stetka got game!!!!

 

#respecttheDJ

[DJ MC]

http://www.masnsport...lineups-11.html

 

Steve Clevenger is batting fifth and playing first, but not exactly Bowie out there.

 

For the Orioles

Alejandro De Aza LF
David Lough CF
Nick Markakis RF
Delmon Young DH
Steve Clevenger 1B
Kelly Johnson 3B
Nick Hundley C
Ryan Flaherty SS
Jonathan Schoop 2B

Chris Tillman RHP

For the Blue Jays
Jose Reyes SS
Jose Bautista RF
Edwin Encarnacion DH
Adam Lind 1B
Dioner Navarro C
Dalton Pompey LF
Munenori Kawasaki 3B
Anthony Gose CF
Ryan Goins 2B

Drew Hutchison RHP

 

Not all that happy with Markakis playing. Not with any chance of anything happening.

[bnickle]

I swear to god if these fuckers drill Nick or even De Aza I'm gonna find a way to drop a bomb on Canada.

[DJ MC]

I swear to god if these fuckers drill Nick or even De Aza I'm gonna find a way to drop a bomb on Canada.

 

Normally, I think all of the beanball revenge BS is just that, and am willing to take the high road. But this game is entirely meaningless for Toronto. There is absolutely no need for the Jays to do a thing unless they just want to negatively affect the Orioles in the playoffs.

 

If I were managing I would be severely tempted to meet up with Gibbons backstage and tell him that, if an Orioles player either has a ball thrown at his head or is actually hit in some body part where they could be severely injured, the O's would begin throwing at every Toronto batter's kneecap and baserunners would be instructed to go for the legs at every opportunity until the Orioles had enough players ejected to forfeit. Doing damage that would not just cause pain now, but could linger into next season--a season where Gibby will surely be on a short leash himself.

 

Now, I don't think there's any way I go through with that, simply because it would almost guarantee getting Orioles players hurt more than necessary. But frankly there is no excuse to Toronto to act like they did in the last series now, and if they do they should get punished for it.

[SBTarheel]

I did hear that Stroman called Caleb and they worked it out, so I don't think there will be anything lingering from last time. 

 

But yeah, I'm with Nickle.

[RShack]

I swear to god if these fuckers drill Nick or even De Aza I'm gonna find a way to drop a bomb on Canada.

 

Well, he's gotta play some guys who are legit... if he didn't, Casey Stengel would climb out of his grave and personally spit tobacco juice right in his face...  as it is, Buck's pushing it a little.... that's partially the injuries, but he's still sailing kinda close to the wind on this one...