157 replies to this topic

[Mike in STL]

I didn't see the play you are talking about, but the umpires absolutely got the call wrong (in the Orioles favor) in that game against the Tigers, and the replay officials did not reverse it.

I think the tricky part about the reviews is that it needs to be irrefutable to overturn the call on the field. It's tough to say what's irrefutable when making judgment calls, so perhaps what we're just seeing is that it's difficult to overturn calls. I think that if the call in the O's game was initially out at 2nd, that it would've remained out after the review. Perhaps the review official is giving the umpires on the field too much benefit of the doubt on transfer type calls.

I don't buy what that sideline reporter is saying, though. That's gotta be BS.

Yeah. This one was clear as day a catch. I mean no question whatsoever.

[Mike in STL]

Heres the play in question Mack

 

http://m.mlb.com/vid...lbtax=undefined

 

While looking for that one, I found another one they got wrong. I get it that it's a close play, but pretty easy to tell that Gordon got a hand on the base before the tag was applied. 

 

http://m.mlb.com/vid...lbtax=undefined

 

Awful.

[Oriole85]

What Mike Schmidt wants (CBS Sports)

 

“I think the umpire at home plate should not call balls and strikes. I think they should have a force field over home plate and if the pitcher throws and the ball touches the force field a little bell goes off and it's a strike. That would expand the strike zone to the point where the hitters would now have to swing the ball, which would shorten the game. The umpire needs to be at home plate for the safe and out calls at home plate and foul balls and fair balls and basically to run the game but we're going to see at some time -- my guess is within the next 10 years -- that you'll see the balls and strikes just like the line calls in tennis. You'd think it would be something very easy to do with what they can do electronically in our world today.”

[DJ MC]

What Mike Schmidt wants (CBS Sports)

 

He's right, but...Mikey, buddy, "force field"? C'mon man.

[Russ]

He's got a good point about the strike zone. Make the zone bigger than a bread basket in the hitter's wheelhouse and you force batters to swing. You speed up the game and it's aesthetically more pleasing.

[DJ MC]

If This Is How MLB's New Home-Plate Rule Will Be Applied, We Hate It

 

Looks like a clear call to me. Sanchez slid his leg into the basepath before he had the ball, and didn't need to do so because he was already in position to catch the ball. That's the kind of thing a catcher used to be able to do, but not anymore.

[Mike in STL]

He's got a good point about the strike zone. Make the zone bigger than a bread basket in the hitter's wheelhouse and you force batters to swing. You speed up the game and it's aesthetically more pleasing.

There was an article I read some time ago, sorry I dont have the link. But it was about a guy who watched some random rerun they were showing of a Brewers game from 1980something. He said game time was one hour 52 minutes. The final was 4-2, so it wasn't a string of three up three down innings. There were pitching changes on both sides. Primarily the reason for the fast game was the bigger strike zone, faster working pitchers, and batters who didnt step out for 15 seconds after each pitch.

I dont mind it being a three hour game because I love baseball. But there was a Rays game last year after rosters expanded and I think Joe Maddon made over 10 pitching changes, basically playing matchups after the 3rd inning. It was like a four hour game, most of it not even being any baseball action.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Really close review under way in the Gnats game right now. Play at the plate.

[Mashed Potatoes]

http://www.slate.com...use_tennis.html

 

First, limit the number of incorrect challenges only. It makes no sense for a team to get two challenges, be correct on both of them, and then … be utterly dependent on the whim of the umps. A penalty for incorrect challenges ensures that they won’t be used frivolously (except maybe at the end of a game, where there’s little to lose; tennis has this problem, too). One or two incorrect challenges per game seems about right. (A lot more balls are hit during a tennis match than during a baseball game.) However, teams should get one more challenge should a game go to extra innings.

 

Second, shift the responsibility for challenging from the manager to the players. Most of the disputes will involve force or tag plays, where the runner and the fielder are in the best position to know what happened. In tougher cases, as when a line drive that may have bounced is ruled caught, the temptation is to let the managers challenge, but that’s only because we’re used to the spectacle. The manager will rarely if ever have the best perspective on the play, so let’s stick with the players. The contesting player closest to the ball can make the challenge. In the case of the player who hit the allegedly caught ball, put the burden on him to argue that the ball was trapped, not on the manager. If the player is lucky, there might be another baserunner from his team with a better view of the play, who could then challenge the “out” call right away. If he’s unlucky, well, that’s baseball.

 

Finally, let the fans see what’s going on. If MLB does nothing else, they should do this. Whatever multiple angles the folks in the Replay Operations Center are seeing, the fans should, too, and at the same time. Baseball doesn’t have Hawkeye, but never underestimate the power of a dramatic moment in making fans feel included and a replay feel authoritative. As each of the many angles is shown, fans can groan, or whoop, or just break into small discussion groups. Then the remote “Voice of God” can announce the verdict. Since the conclusion can’t be as clear as the in/out call of tennis, some will still moan. More’s the fun.

 

[BSLChrisStoner]

I'm of the opinion the call should be made in 90 seconds. By the time the Mgr. has come out to determine if he is going to challenge... that's a 30 second stoppage.. if the challenge is called at that point, I think it should be made within 90 seconds.

 

If you can't determine in 90 seconds, it's likely because the video evidence is not abundantly clear. If that is the case, I'd go with the call on the field.

[Mike in STL]

I think they do show the camera angles at the games now for replays.

One way to fix it is to get the calls right. Thats what it was implemented for. There have been so many blown calls after looking at replay. I get it in football that you can have plays where there isnt enough evidence because of bodies in the way and what not. In baseball, ive yet to see one that you really cant tell. Every play has a camera angle that is clear as day with no obstructions. It'll be rare like a play at the plate where the ump or on deck batter is in the cameras way and you really cant tell.

Otherwise, there is no such thing as indisputable evidence in baseball on tag plays and base plays. Freeze frame when the player touches the bag, is the ball in glove or tag applied? Not a judgment call, its yes or no. And of course tie goes to the runner. Seen that too where it was a tie and they called the batter out because the evidence was indisputable and the call on the field was out. Wrong.

[PatrickDougherty]

I think they do show the camera angles at the games now for replays.

One way to fix it is to get the calls right. Thats what it was implemented for. There have been so many blown calls after looking at replay. I get it in football that you can have plays where there isnt enough evidence because of bodies in the way and what not. In baseball, ive yet to see one that you really cant tell. Every play has a camera angle that is clear as day with no obstructions. It'll be rare like a play at the plate where the ump or on deck batter is in the cameras way and you really cant tell.

Otherwise, there is no such thing as indisputable evidence in baseball on tag plays and base plays. Freeze frame when the player touches the bag, is the ball in glove or tag applied? Not a judgment call, its yes or no. And of course tie goes to the runner. Seen that too where it was a tie and they called the batter out because the evidence was indisputable and the call on the field was out. Wrong.

I remember reading last season that MLB's partnership with some television producer requires them to use that producer's sets for their official replays... but that those televisions are only 720p. That's still HD, but not as high-quality as what sits in most people's living rooms. That was actually the cause of blown replay calls like that A's/Indians home run last year.

 

Why they don't do a central office that has the power to call for and determine all replays like the NHL blows my mind. It's easily the best possible solution if the goal is really to get calls right and not just assuage fan complaints about the lack of replay.

[BSLChrisStoner]

I remember reading last season that MLB's partnership with some television producer requires them to use that producer's sets for their official replays... but that those televisions are only 720p. That's still HD, but not as high-quality as what sits in most people's living rooms. That was actually the cause of blown replay calls like that A's/Indians home run last year.

 

Why they don't do a central office that has the power to call for and determine all replays like the NHL blows my mind. It's easily the best possible solution if the goal is really to get calls right and not just assuage fan complaints about the lack of replay.

 

All instant replay reviews are examined by an umpire at the Replay Command Center in NYC, who has the final decision as to whether to uphold or overturn the initial call.... but I think your point is for the Command Center to call for the replays?

 

I don't see that as a current issue, as Managers are going out to the field on every close play... waiting to hear from their bench if they should challenge.

To me, the biggest current issue is game play.

[Pedro Cerrano]

The only thing I hate, and this has happened a few times, is on the 3rd out, the players leave the field and then the other manager decides to challenge, gets the call overturned and the players have to come back out.  In the Pirates/Reds game yesterday we had two commercial breaks within 2 seconds of each other because Cueto had to come back out and literally throw one more pitch to end the inning.

[Mackus]

And of course tie goes to the runner. Seen that too where it was a tie and they called the batter out because the evidence was indisputable and the call on the field was out. Wrong.

 

Probably the most common misconception in all of sports.

 

A tie does not go to the runner.

[Mackus]

I think having the players call for replays is a terrible idea. 

 

I think the umpires should be the only ones who can call for a replay.  The manager can come out and request a replay, but the umpires do not have to agree, though I imagine they would review anything they think may have been wrong.  Once the umps call for a replay, go to the NY office, have a couple guys review the tape, and let them know what the call is. 

 

If the whole dance ends up taking too long, with the managers coming out to argue multiple times, then eventually I see MLB eliminating the managers coming out onto the field to argue calls.  No other sport allows that.  Maybe they keep the manager's challenge in that case, so they can still challenge a call from the sideline, but it'll save tons of time if they can't come out and argue calls whenever they feel like it for as long as they like.

[Mike in STL]

And of course tie goes to the runner. Seen that too where it was a tie and they called the batter out because the evidence was indisputable and the call on the field was out. Wrong.

 
Probably the most common misconception in all of sports.
 
A tie does not go to the runner.

It doesn't? I have never heard that. Not saying your wrong, just that ive never heard that a tie doesnt go to the runner.

[Oriole85]

They should use the cfb system, have a "5th umpire" and buzz down. Also, if two umpires reach different conclusions, I think you can go to a replay at that point. However, I think the managers should get ONE challenge a game, maybe a second one if it goes to extras -- just in case the umpires miss something.

 

It doesn't? I have never heard that. Not saying your wrong, just that ive never heard that a tie doesnt go to the runner.

I thought that was the case as well, first time I'm hearing otherwise. Not to say it always happens.

[Mackus]

It doesn't? I have never heard that. Not saying your wrong, just that ive never heard that a tie doesnt go to the runner.

 

 

 

I thought that was the case as well, first time I'm hearing otherwise. Not to say it always happens.

 

 

There are no ties.  Runner either beats the tag/throw or he doesn't.

[Oriole85]

There are no ties.  Runner either beats the tag/throw or he doesn't.

In a virtual tie, the runner gets the benefit of the doubt. Some day, we will have robots deciding these things that are decided  by fractions of a millisecond.