926 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

Let me be clear. His track record doesn't make him one of the best coaches of our generation. I'm going by what I saw him accomplish with no quarterback, what I know of him as a person, and what I feel he could have done with a legitimate NFL QB, much less a great one in Flacco. I'm not saying that his 9 years make him one of the best coaches of our generation. 

Ok fair enough, he did more with less, he overachieved -- I can agree with you there. It's very hard to make it in this league without a legit QB, no disagreement. I don't think that makes him one of the best coaches of our generation and results matter here. Only making it past the divisional round once matters.

[mweb08]

BTW, it's more than fair to mention that Harbaugh has had a QB advantage in Flacco over what Billick had. However, I don't think their first year is one to really point to in that regard as Joe was a game manager and nothing special at that point IMO. Also, when just talking Harbaugh, I don't think it's fair to suggest he's overrated at all because he's had Joe because while Joe has been good, he hasn't been great with the key exception of the run to win the SB, and QB production hasn't been great during Harbaugh's run. It's not like he's riding the coattails of an elite QB here.

[mweb08]

I made a true statement. Sorry that you have an issue with it.


It's also funny that someone can replace Flacco with Harbaugh and say that statement to you.

Anyone who would take Harbaugh over Flacco is not smart. You replace Joe Flacco with Gino Smith and keep everything else the same and the Jets are a playoff team. You replace John Harbaugh with Rex Ryan and keep everything else the same and nothing changes.

I'm not even sure why this is a response to what I said. But sure, it's hard to win with a terrible QB. Rex is a good to very good coach, so your comparison isn't really fair, but I'm not trying to make this Flacco vs Harbaugh.

[bnickle]

There's a flip side to this.  Think about what a great offensive team (like Peyton's Colts) could have done with Ray, Ed, Boulware, Suggs, Ngata, etc.

 

I thought Billick was a pretty bad head coach.  He was predictable, unimaginative, stubborn, conservative and arrogant.  

 

Cue another 12 pages tonight in this thread.

All adjectives I would use to describe Harbaugh. He's won at a higher % and doesn't have a losing season on his resume, so people aren't as critical and pick him apart on it as much.

 

 

No need for 12 more pages. I strongly disagree that  a coach who won 56% of his games over 9 years and has a SB ring is bad.  I mean 9 years is a pretty big stretch by NFL coaching standards. Not a small sample size. I wonder how many coaches have had a 9 year run with a  56% win rate. It can't be a long list.

[Oriole85]

BTW, it's more than fair to mention that Harbaugh has had a QB advantage in Flacco over what Billick had. However, I don't think their first year is one to really point to in that regard as Joe was a game manager and nothing special at that point IMO. Also, when just talking Harbaugh, I don't think it's fair to suggest he's overrated at all because he's had Joe because while Joe has been good, he hasn't been great with the key exception of the run to win the SB, and QB production hasn't been great during Harbaugh's run. It's not like he's riding the coattails of an elite QB here.

This isn't John Fox in Denver. (not saying he is or isn't a good coach)

[McNulty]

All adjectives I would use to describe Harbaugh. He's won at a higher % and doesn't have a losing season on his resume, so people aren't as critical and pick him apart on it as much.

 

 

No need for 12 more pages. I strongly disagree that  a coach who won 56% of his games over 9 years and has a SB ring is bad.  I mean 9 years is a pretty big stretch by NFL coaching standards. Not a small sample size. I wonder how many coaches have had a 9 year run with a  56% win rate. It can't be a long list.

 

Harbaugh is predictable?  He's tried quite a few fakes for example.  I don't think Billick EVER tried one.  Or a surprise on side kick.  He'd never go for it on 4th and whatever beyond the 40.  Hardly any trick plays (I can't remember any really).

 

Billick had an all world D for the better part of his tenure, so he better have a good W/L record.  The measure of a coach is getting your players to rise up to their abilities and putting them in positions to succeed.  Harbaugh has that over Billick by a good bit.

[BSLChrisStoner]

If I'm ending this thread too early... apologies. The discussions have veered all over the place. Start new threads for those topics if need be.