48 replies to this topic

[bnickle]

It'd be interesting to get Seth's take on Roy vs. Gary. Know he's a Tar Heels guy, but I know he'd be objective and was a big fan of Gary's.

Right now an argument can be made for Gary over Roy as far as ACC careers. It is an argument for sure. I don't think it'll be an argument in 10 years.

 

Gary has the raw numbers in his favor. 461 ACC wins to 281. 192 ACC wins to 117. Roy has already had more NCAA and ACC tourney success in 9 years at UNC. Once Roys career is over the raw win numbers will be much closer. Roy could even pass Gary.

 

 

 

If you are talking about overall careers its not even close. I mean I understand Roy was at two Blue Blood schools but he's easily a Top 10 college coach of all time already. Could be Top 5 before its all over.

 

 

 

Also, Im not Seth.

[Oriole85]

Right now an argument can be made for Gary over Roy as far as ACC careers. It is an argument for sure. I don't think it'll be an argument in 10 years.

 

Gary has the raw numbers in his favor. 461 ACC wins to 281. 192 ACC wins to 117. Roy has already had more NCAA and ACC tourney success in 9 years at UNC. Once Roys career is over the raw win numbers will be much closer. Roy could even pass Gary.

 

 

 

If you are talking about overall careers its not even close. I mean I understand Roy was at two Blue Blood schools but he's easily a Top 10 college coach of all time already. COuld be Top 5 before its all over.

 

 

 

Also, Im not Seth.

Depends how long Roy lasts, he's 63.

 

We both agree on overall careers, there's no question about that. Generally speaking, I'm one who thinks the more schools/teams, you are part of, the more it diminishes your career. However, when you can lead them to the highest levels of success, that looks even better. For example, if Nick Saban leads Texas to a national title(don't think he'll leave), that makes his legacy even better, leading three teams to national titles, which would be unprecedented.

[glenn__davis]

How long have you been blind. That was the running  joke for 15 years on Gary in regards to last second shots at half.

I won't return the insult because that's not how I roll.  I will just say that if you were talking to people who think Gary was weak in this regard, you were talking to the wrong people.  Even in his last few years when his roster was not as talented as it should have been, Gary's teams were always very good at executing set plays.

 

But, I understand that it is a pointless argument to have with you, and in any event, as Chris and others have mentioned, the Gary debate is incredibly tired at this point.  But I do look forward to the time when we can talk about our current basketball coach without having to look for ways to take shots at the old one.

[BSLMattJergensen]

I understand the concern over the Terps lack of execution on set pieces at the end of the half/game. The issues last season with low court IQ, too many turnovers, lack of execution have been well documented and ultimately it falls on the staff to "coach players up" too improve in the regard.That said last Friday's game was not as sloppy as some or poor as some make it out to be.

 

The best teams in the country average about 9-10 turnovers a game. UMD had 13 against UCONN. This was the first game of the season against a legit Top 25 team. Basketball is a long season.

 

I'll say that the plays drawn up at the end of the game were fine and the idea of getting Wells the ball made sense but poor decision making hampered success. Does that totally exonerate Turgeon? No. I think in order to be fair and consistent he has to get credit for things that go right but also blame when they don't. In the end it was a missed opportunity for a big resume win to start the year

 

As for Gary Williams. He's not perfect. Who is. He's got a very strong resume - 668 career wins - (63% win pct.) and of course a national title. Building the program in the aftermath of the Len Bias tragedy, the Bob Wade debacle and sanctions imposed at the start of his tenure he'll always hold a special place in UMD history for building a consistent program out of some very messy situations.

 

Done talking about Gary, let's focus on what lies ahead,

[Mackus]

I think it's a fallacy to suggest Turgeon prefers a slowed-down style.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think it's a fallacy to suggest Turgeon prefers a slowed-down style.

 

I wasn't suggesting. I was asking, to be clear.

[Mackus]

I wasn't suggesting. I was asking, to be clear.

 

I think he largely has run slower offenses, especially so at A&M, but I really think that was more due to personnel rather than his preferred style.  It'll be tough to prove, so maybe the evidence of what he actually did run is the best we can go on.  But I don't doubt that if he had guys who's game fit a more up-tempo style that he would allow them to force the issue.

[You Play to Win the Game]

I think he largely has run slower offenses, especially so at A&M, but I really think that was more due to personnel rather than his preferred style.  It'll be tough to prove, so maybe the evidence of what he actually did run is the best we can go on.  But I don't doubt that if he had guys who's game fit a more up-tempo style that he would allow them to force the issue.

 

Yeah, that was one of the things I asked in that post... was it a personnel thing, or is that the offense he was convicted about running. I don't know, was just a thought. I do tend to think, in today's game, if you have 'em, you smoke 'em.. meaning, as you said, there's no good reason not to go up tempo if the tools are there.

[BSLMattJergensen]

http://tlorc.wordpre...geon-led-teams/

 

This was written just before Turge came to MD and looks at the tempo of his A & M teams.

 

I would argue that this style is a mix of what he likes to do and what he had to do based on personnel.