389 replies to this topic

[Nigel Tufnel]

Yeah, that's kind of weird location.  Convenient to 83 and not too far from the subway, but not that great for access to 95 from the north or south, and a 20 minute walk to the light rail.

 

Also, without the concert pavilion at Pier Six, where would REO Speedwagon play?

[RShack]

Yeah, that's kind of weird location.  Convenient to 83 and not too far from the subway, but not that great for access to 95 from the north or south,

 

Where the hell would you park?

[NewMarketSean]

There's plenty of parking garages nearby. Little Italy, Harbor East, Downtown, etc. That won't really be an problem. People are used to parking and walking for Ravens games, Orioles games, other downtown events so this really doesn't change anything from a parking standpoint.

 

The charm city circulator would provide some options as well, especially for people coming from the LR or satellite parking lots around the city. However those buses would have to use the same streets that will be clogged up with traffic for arena events. Traffic coming in from 395 would be an nightmare. Conway and Pratt Street will be completely clogged. It already is during a regular rush hour. Now imagine a premiere concert or sporting event there at 7 p.m.

 

I really do hope the Red Line is built, but it won't satisfy the traffic nightmare that would occur if this arena is built in this location.

 

Still, it's probably the best option we have and the Cordish Bros. are the best candidates to pull it off aside from say, Kevin Plank, and he's busy buying and developing Port Covington.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Where the hell would you park?

Yeah, that's another thing. I guess you could have a small lot there - there's already one on Pier Six, but there's not a lot of room. And there also isn't good access to any real streets - just a narrow cobblestone road leading into Pier Six, and an even narrower hotel access road/pedestrian walkway onto Pier Five.

On the other hand, I guess road access could be improved, and there's more room for parking than at the current arena.

[DJ MC]

In terms of local transportation, the site isn't bad. There is plenty of parking--maybe more than for the current arena--and the road situation would be similar to that of coming off 95 onto Howard Street to go to the Chicken Bucket. The Metro is three-ish blocks away, but that's not too bad; and the people at Power Plant Live are going to love having everyone walk through to get to the stop.

 

From a regional perspective, though, it's...let's be charitable and call it "not ideal".

[Oriole85]

Drew's Morning Dish: “New Arena” talk is just that…talk

[NewMarketSean]

Well, there needs to be talk before there's action. Duh.

 

Drew does have a point, though. Public funded arenas and stadiums are a borderline crime. The taxpayers fund the stadiums and contracting companies and the sports franchises that play there get rich off of it. Wherever this first happened, it started an ugly trend.

 

That said, does anyone regret building OPACY or M&T Bank Stadium? I disagree with Drew's sentiment that we'll NEVER get an NBA or NHL team. We won't as long as we don't have a new arena, that's for sure. And saying that a new arena would only host the same events the current arena does is shortsighted, pessimistic and incorrect. A bigger, newer arena will get you more events by default.

 

Here's OPACY and M&T Stadium funding breakdowns courtesy of http://www.bizjourna...rom-a-mix.html:

 

M&T Bank Stadium — $230 million
• $220 million in state revenue bonds
• $24 million in private funding
• $113.8 from Md. State Lottery and other Stadium Authority revenue
• $6.5M annual debt service on bonds
• $60,775,000 principal balance as of June 30, 2012

Oriole Park at Camden Yards — $215 million
• $92 million in state revenue bonds and $14 million in lottery receipts for construction
• 60 million in state revenue bonds and $40 million in lottery receipts for land purchase.
• $9 million from the Baltimore Orioles
• $6.5 million annual debt service on bonds
• $115.8 million* in principal balance as of June 30, 2012 (also includes new bonds issued for stadium improvements)
* Also includes new bond issues for stadium improvements.

 

 

Hopefully a new arena is funded similarly so the public isn't getting robbed.

It's also why the city was dumb not to jump on Hackerman's majority private-funded arena at the convention center.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Drew's Morning Dish: “New Arena” talk is just that…talk

 

Drew is sort of a colleague at this point.... so, I won't be over-the-top here... but I disagree.

[BSLMikeLowe]

What gets built first, an arena or the Red Line? I'm betting I don't live to see either.

 

And the more I think about a Pier 5/6 arena, the less appealing the location sounds as far as logistics. But if my statement above holds true (and despite being 45 I'm in pretty good health) then it won't really matter.

[NewMarketSean]

I'd say the red line. The preconstruction studies and planning are almost done. Millions have been spent to do it so pulling the plug now would be a waste. I doubt Hogan will approve the construction and price tag under his watch but he's bound to be a one term guy anyway so I bet the new Gov approves it In 2019 and we're riding it in 2024.

[mweb08]

I totally agree with Drew. The city has more important things to spend money on. If there was a realistic chance of getting an NBA or NHL team, then there could be a debate, but this proposal doesn't make that possible so I don't see enough of a benefit.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I'd say the red line. The preconstruction studies and planning are almost done. Millions have been spent to do it so pulling the plug now would be a waste. I doubt Hogan will approve the construction and price tag under his watch but he's bound to be a one term guy anyway so I bet the new Gov approves it In 2019 and we're riding it in 2024.

 

Can the project be revived at that point? Isn't there usually a ticking clock on the federal funds available for these projects? Four years is a long time. And obviously if the fed money is gone, then it ain't happening.

[RShack]

Can the project be revived at that point? Isn't there usually a ticking clock on the federal funds available for these projects? Four years is a long time. And obviously if the fed money is gone, then it ain't happening.

 

It all comes down to who's in charge in DC.  If the people in charge believe in cities and mass transit, then they'll believe in this.  But if the party in charge doesn't believe in cities and mass transit, and instead only believes in doing nothing, because Freedom!™, then it won't happen.

[NewMarketSean]

Can the project be revived at that point? Isn't there usually a ticking clock on the federal funds available for these projects? Four years is a long time. And obviously if the fed money is gone, then it ain't happening.

Right, I agree. But the red line has been in planning stages in one form or another since 2002. The final plan is what I'm guessing got the federal money, but yeah, I think you're right.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Right, I agree. But the red line has been in planning stages in one form or another since 2002. The final plan is what I'm guessing got the federal money, but yeah, I think you're right.

 

My understanding is that while the fed earmarks funds for transportation projects like the Red Line, the money is almost always contingent on the state and/or local municipalities funding their share. And usually there is an expiration on the federal funds, so if state/local backs out, the fed money goes back into the pot at some point. And if they want to revive the project they have to go back to the federal govt to ask for that money all over again....and depending on who is in charge you may have a tough time getting it.

 

Then again, the ICC seemingly was killed and then revived several times, and it finally happened.

 

Sounds like a lot of Baltimore businesses and their member associations intend to lobby the new guv to fund the Red Line. Of course that's because many of them stand to benefit directly. I'm sure there are businesses outside the city that have no desire to see it built.

Anyway, back to the arena. The reason I wen't off on the Red Line tangent is because if this newest proposal is to happen, or even gain traction for that matter, I think the RL is going to be a crucial piece of the puzzle. We'll see.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Looks like the Eagles are playing the Arena on July 20, so I'll probably go - as run down as it is, it's actually a great place to see a concert (although I haven't been there since 2009).

[NewMarketSean]

Looks like the Eagles are playing the Arena on July 20, so I'll probably go - as run down as it is, it's actually a great place to see a concert (although I haven't been there since 2009).

It really isnt a bad place for a show. The seats are uncomfortable and there's like 2 bathrooms in the entire building but as far as the show itself is concerned, yeah, not bad.

[Nigel Tufnel]

It really isnt a bad place for a show. The seats are uncomfortable and there's like 2 bathrooms in the entire building but as far as the show itself is concerned, yeah, not bad.

 

Yeah, you're right.  The watching/hearing the concert part is good there.  But if you want to do anything else, like get food or use the bathroom, you're completely screwed.

[Nigel Tufnel]

FYI - there's an Eagles presale on Thursday at 10am (ho hum, nothing else going on at that exact time) and the password is 'EASY'.  Tickets look pretty expensive, though.

[BSLMikeLowe]

As March Madness is now upon us, I can only (yet again) wonder what could be for Baltimore if they'd finally figure out a way to build an actual arena. They're hosting games here in Portland on Thursday/Saturday, and an article in today's local paper said all of the downtown hotels are sold out for the next several days. That sure would suck, wouldn't it, Baltimore?