68 replies to this topic

[Oriole85]

Why not just make it 6 games against each of the 10 teams, and go to a 156-game schedule. That would allow you the time to make the Wild Card play-in best-of-three without having to extend the season regularly into November.

The season is slightly too long anyway at 162 games. Going to 156 would be a bit of lost income, but it could be recouped in the longer Wild Card round.

As for realigning, I can't see it ever happening. Bud Selig has made more radical changes to the game than any commissioner before him, and if he hasn't done it, no one will. And contraction will never fly with the players' union.

That's 3 lost home games for Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and San Diego. Those teams aren't recouping that money in the extra wild card. I can't see any small market team going for that idea. I think just about as unlikely as realignment given that 162 is so engrained in the baseball landscape in terms of records at this point.

[BSLChrisStoner]

During the O's / Yankees game tonight, MASN put up a graphic of the realignment proposed by Girardi. Suggested a Mid-Atlantic Division, with the O's, Nationals, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Florida.

[Chris B]

I think Joe Girardi might need to go back to 3rd grade Social Studies because Georgia and Florida are not Mid-Atlantic states.

[Oriole85]

During the O's / Yankees game tonight, MASN put up a graphic of the realignment proposed by Girardi. Suggested a Mid-Atlantic Division, with the O's, Nationals, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Florida.

Sounds me like the NHL alignment almost, it's Miami now(sorry to nitpick)

[Nuclear Dish]

That's 3 lost home games for Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and San Diego. Those teams aren't recouping that money in the extra wild card. I can't see any small market team going for that idea. I think just about as unlikely as realignment given that 162 is so engrained in the baseball landscape in terms of records at this point.

You make a good point for the small market teams, but it shouldn't be too hard to compensate them, especially since they are only drawing 10-15K fans per game.

However, I have to disagree with the 162-game season being ingrained in the landscape. 154 games was the standard for the first 60+ years of baseball. We're now in the 52nd year of 162 games (of which I think 4 were strike shortened) in the AL and 51st year in the NL. It wouldn't be such a big deal to drop to 156. No one would think twice about it if it worked out monetarily.

[Oriole85]

That's 3 lost home games for Kansas City, Pittsburgh, and San Diego. Those teams aren't recouping that money in the extra wild card. I can't see any small market team going for that idea. I think just about as unlikely as realignment given that 162 is so engrained in the baseball landscape in terms of records at this point.

You make a good point for the small market teams, but it shouldn't be too hard to compensate them, especially since they are only drawing 10-15K fans per game.

However, I have to disagree with the 162-game season being ingrained in the landscape. 154 games was the standard for the first 60+ years of baseball. We're now in the 52nd year of 162 games (of which I think 4 were strike shortened) in the AL and 51st year in the NL. It wouldn't be such a big deal to drop to 156. No one would think twice about it if it worked out monetarily.

And you make a great point with them doing it for 60 years. Most of the records though have been surpassed and since baseball loves it's history, will be comparing it 154 to 162 to 156.

Do you think the big market teams want more competition? Yankees are pretty much in the playoffs every year and have had relative difficulty in it recently, do they want another competitor? Look at the Caps, what was their reward for winning first or second all those years... early round exits. Really don't want to see a watered down regular season.

[Nuclear Dish]

And you make a great point with them doing it for 60 years. Most of the records though have been surpassed and since baseball loves it's history, will be comparing it 154 to 162 to 156.

Do you think the big market teams want more competition? Yankees are pretty much in the playoffs every year and have had relative difficulty in it recently, do they want another competitor? Look at the Caps, what was their reward for winning first or second all those years... early round exits. Really don't want to see a watered down regular season.

Because there is already history of a 154-game season, I don't think it's quite as big a deal to go down to 156. There never was an asterisk on Maris's HR record (at the time), just different records for different length seasons. I don't think anyone would have too much problem with a reduction, as long as it's between 154 and 162.

As for the big market teams and their extra competition in the playoffs, they are already getting it. The extra wild card spot is a fait accompli. It's already implemented for this year.

If anything, extending the series to best-of-three helps the big market teams, since they can't be knocked out in a one game fluke now. As it stands today, if the Yankees get the 4th seed and face the upstart Orioles in the 4-5 game, the O's need only win one game to advance and knock the Yankees out. I'm sure NY would prefer to see that series be 3 games to give them a better shot to prove themselves the better team.

[Oriole85]

As for the big market teams and their extra competition in the playoffs, they are already getting it. The extra wild card spot is a fait accompli. It's already implemented for this year.

If anything, extending the series to best-of-three helps the big market teams, since they can't be knocked out in a one game fluke now. As it stands today, if the Yankees get the 4th seed and face the upstart Orioles in the 4-5 game, the O's need only win one game to advance and knock the Yankees out. I'm sure NY would prefer to see that series be 3 games to give them a better shot to prove themselves the better team.

That's the point, the perennial playoff teams can't be in favor of expanding the playoffs even to the amount they already have, just more obstacles than they previously had. I don't necessarily agree with your assumption that they would want a best of 3 game series. If they had CC going against Jake Arrieta at Yankee Stadium with both teams regular lineups, I think they would take their chances.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Baltimore Sports and Life: “During the series in NY, it was reported that Yankees Manager Joe Girardi was suggesting radical realignment for Baseball beginning next year. (For example, he suggested a division of the O’s, Washington, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Miami.) Do you see any real possibility of this?

If not, the tweaks I would like to see with the schedule when Houston comes to the AL next year are:

A) 12 games against all of your division rivals for 48 games.
B) One 3 game series vs. every team in the other league, plus one additional series vs. each team’s designated rival. For the Orioles, that would be the Nationals. This provides for another 48 games.
C) That leaves 66 games to play against the other 10 teams in your league. You play six of those teams 7 times, and the other four teams 6 times. Those teams can be rotated year to year.
D) Preferably the Wild Card winners play a best of 3 series which makes the Wild Card teams use their two best starters to advance, and gives the Division winners a further advantage.

What would you like to see with realignment and scheduling? What do you think will happen?”

Bob Harkins, NBC Sports / Hardball Talk: "I don’t think we’re going to see any radical realignment (the Astros notwithstanding) in the near future. There will have to be some scheduling tweaks with the Astros joining the AL, as there will always have to be an interleague series going. So that’s radical enough for now. As far as my personal thoughts, I would like to see the divisions done away with altogether. Just have the 15 AL teams and 15 NL teams play a balanced schedule, and have the top five teams in each league make the playoffs. That would level the playing field and give everyone an even chance of making the postseason. I don’t expect this to happen, though. Certainly not in the near future.

[Nuclear Dish]

Just have the 15 AL teams and 15 NL teams play a balanced schedule, and have the top five teams in each league make the playoffs. That would level the playing field and give everyone an even chance of making the postseason. I don’t expect this to happen, though. Certainly not in the near future.

Great idea. Let's also throw in that the last place team in each league gets relegated to the minors.

(I'm kidding)

[Oriole85]

Baltimore Sports and Life: “During the series in NY, it was reported that Yankees Manager Joe Girardi was suggesting radical realignment for Baseball beginning next year. (For example, he suggested a division of the O’s, Washington, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, and Miami.) Do you see any real possibility of this?

If not, the tweaks I would like to see with the schedule when Houston comes to the AL next year are:

A) 12 games against all of your division rivals for 48 games.
B) One 3 game series vs. every team in the other league, plus one additional series vs. each team’s designated rival. For the Orioles, that would be the Nationals. This provides for another 48 games.
C) That leaves 66 games to play against the other 10 teams in your league. You play six of those teams 7 times, and the other four teams 6 times. Those teams can be rotated year to year.
D) Preferably the Wild Card winners play a best of 3 series which makes the Wild Card teams use their two best starters to advance, and gives the Division winners a further advantage.

What would you like to see with realignment and scheduling? What do you think will happen?”

Bob Harkins, NBC Sports / Hardball Talk: "I don’t think we’re going to see any radical realignment (the Astros notwithstanding) in the near future. There will have to be some scheduling tweaks with the Astros joining the AL, as there will always have to be an interleague series going. So that’s radical enough for now. As far as my personal thoughts, I would like to see the divisions done away with altogether. Just have the 15 AL teams and 15 NL teams play a balanced schedule, and have the top five teams in each league make the playoffs. That would level the playing field and give everyone an even chance of making the postseason. I don’t expect this to happen, though. Certainly not in the near future.

I don't quite see radical realignment happening anytime in the near future. Too many moving parts, look how complicated it was for the Astros to realign, now do that many times over.

[DJ MC]

Just have the 15 AL teams and 15 NL teams play a balanced schedule, and have the top five teams in each league make the playoffs. That would level the playing field and give everyone an even chance of making the postseason. I don’t expect this to happen, though. Certainly not in the near future.

Great idea. Let's also throw in that the last place team in each league gets relegated to the minors.

(I'm kidding)

I agree, and I'm NOT kidding

It would take a bit of work to put in place, but theoretically it would be possible to rework Organized Baseball into a promotion/relegation system.

[Nuclear Dish]

I don't quite see radical realignment happening anytime in the near future. Too many moving parts, look how complicated it was for the Astros to realign, now do that many times over.

Well, I've always said that if Bud Selig hasn't done it, no one will. Selig has been the single most influential executive in baseball since Branch Rickey. He has introduced tons of change, some for the best and some not, but he's been open-minded to everything.

The fact that Selig hasn't pushed for this tells me it's a non-starter.

However, I disagree that it's because of all the moving parts. I think that if baseball as a whole makes the decision to realign, it'll figure out the parts pretty easily. But getting all the teams to agree to the concept first is the challenge.

[Nuclear Dish]

I agree, and I'm NOT kidding

It would take a bit of work to put in place, but theoretically it would be possible to rework Organized Baseball into a promotion/relegation system.

The only way this works is if they change from a 30-team major leagues to an A League and a B League.

That basically means that only 15 teams could win the WS in any given year, and the winner (or two finalists, or 4 playoff teams) of the B league get to move up. You can either do away with divisions and play everyone an equal number of times (14 teams x 11 games =154) or you can retain divisions and be slightly unbalanced (4 x 13 = 52 + 10 x 11 = 110 = 162)

Imagine, based on last year, that this year's setup would be:
A League East: PHI, NYY, TOR, BOS, WAS
A League Central: TB, DET, MIL, ATL, STL
A League West: ARI, LAD, LAA, SF, TEX

B League East: BAL, NYM, MIA, PIT, CLE
B League Central: MIN, CWS, CHC, KC, CIN
B League West: COL, SD, SEA, OAK, HOU

You could expand by 2 teams and then make it 4 divisions of 4 in each league. You can also imagine that it would be very interesting to keep divisions in play, but that they would change slightly from year-to-year because of teams entering or being demoted, and based on the geographic makeup of the teams in a given league in a given year.

So based on this year's records so far, the 2013 alignment would then be:
A League East: WAS, NYY, TOR, NYM (promoted), BAL (promoted)
A League Central: DET, ATL, STL, CLE (promoted)
A League West: TEX, LAD, SF, ARI, OAK (promoted)

B League East: MIA, PIT, CIN, MIL (demoted), BOS (demoted)
B League Central: MIN, CWS, CHC, KC, HOU
B League West: COL, SD, SEA, ARI (demoted), LAA (demoted)

In the case of a tie, the team with the better record the previous season wins the tiebreaker, thus ARI gets demoted and not PHI.

This shows four demotions and four promotions. But you could also do 2 demotions and 2 promotions. Imagine being able to have playoff series among the four worst teams to avoid relegation! So at the end of last season, CWS (tiebreaker over CIN) would have played a best-of-7 against MIN, and SD would have played a best-of-7 against COL to see who gets to stay in the A League. And MIL would have faced LAD, while ARI faced LAA for the two promotion spots. The winners could have played off in the B League Championship. Meanwhile, at the top of the A League, the playoff teams would have been different, since MIL and ARI were in the B League. So either PHI-TB and NYY-DET would have been the matchups for the A League playoffs.

It's a radical idea, but it absolutely could work.

[DJ MC]

You want radical? I'll show you radical!

American Major League baseball:

Majors -
Two fourteen-team leagues, organized by geographic location. One eastern (National) league, one western (American) league, generally dividing along the Mississippi River. Teams play a 162-game schedule, one three-game home and road series against each club. The top four teams in each league advance to three-round playoffs.

Minors -
Six levels: AAA, AA, high-A, low-A, short-season-A, rookie. Present leagues may stay in place, starting with International and Pacific Coast leagues. Minor-league clubs have the option to sign a player-development agreement with a higher-level club, or act as an independent team within Organized Minor League Baseball.

Promotion -
At the end of each season, the last-place club in each league (except for low-A) will be demoted to the level below their current place. The first-place club (except for Major leagues) will be promoted to the level above their current place. In both cases the team will be placed in a geographically-appropriate league. Minor-league clubs that sign PDAs are excepted from promotion and demotion. A club may choose to sign a PDA at any time, or compete for promotion at anytime at the conclusion of a PDA.

* * *

Now, this would take quite a bit of work to put in place. It would require an increased focus on league-wide media as opposed to local media at both the major- and (especially) the minor-league levels. It would not necessarily demand increased revenue sharing or salary caps; if a team does not wish to compete with bigger-budget clubs, they may find a level where they can compete.

One issue is that most minor-league teams would have a problem with finding a stadium that can fit a move to a higher level. However, many minor-league stadiums are designed with the possibility of expansion in mind (notably with several AAA clubs, to major-league standards).

Another issue is illustrated by an example. The owner of the Bowie BaySox decides to compete instead of remaining on a PDA. They expand PG Stadium, make it to AAA, then win the International League championship and advance to the majors. However, they are within the "territory" of both the Nationals and the Orioles. The territorial rights of clubs will need to be eliminated.

Since some major-league organizations own their minor-league clubs, and some owners own multiple clubs, the rules would have to be changed to eliminate ownership of more than one baseball club that is not under a PDA with a single club. While the independent clubs will be able to advance but also be on their own financially, clubs offering PDAs would be required to provide more resources than minor-league teams receive right now. That way there are advantages to both paths.

This is a completely unrealistic system. It will never happen short of the formation of a completely new baseball organization. However, it would make things a lot more interesting to most baseball fans. At least more interesting than screwing up the playoff system

[Nuclear Dish]

Unrealistic, yes. You don't even mention what happens to all the minor league players currently under contract to major league teams, or where the minor league teams that opt out of their PDA would staff their squads from.

My idea was more realistic and achievable. Not that it'll happen, but at least it's worth considering. Your idea, while truly radical, is so out of the realm of possibility that I refuse to expend the brain power to figure out whether it would even be successful.

I like that you're a dreamer, though.

[DJ MC]

Unrealistic, yes. You don't even mention what happens to all the minor league players currently under contract to major league teams, or where the minor league teams that opt out of their PDA would staff their squads from.

My idea was more realistic and achievable. Not that it'll happen, but at least it's worth considering. Your idea, while truly radical, is so out of the realm of possibility that I refuse to expend the brain power to figure out whether it would even be successful.

I like that you're a dreamer, though.

All players will remain under contract with their current organization. I imagine that plenty of teams would still like to remain in the player development path, so there will be a place for those players to play. If not, well, teams will have to make choices.

One thing I didn't specifically mention about this system is that a competitive team at any level would be able to sign their own PDAs with lower-level teams. So using the BaySox as the example again, they could as a AA club build their own farm system out of teams at the high-A and low-A levels, and beyond.

A team that opts out would get their players the same place as any other team: the free agent market. Obviously they wouldn't be signing the top-tier major-league free agents*, but how many released players and six-year minor-league free agents are there floating around and signed every off-season?

*Then again, if you get an owner who really wants to advance through the levels and is willing to put a lot of money into a team, I could see at least a AAA club able to compete for certain free agents.

[BSLChrisStoner]

What a difference the 2nd WC has made.

In the AL, the Angels and O's are currently the WC leaders. Behind them, there are another 6 teams within 4 games.

[PD24]

What a difference the 2nd WC has made.

In the AL, the Angels and O's are currently the WC leaders. Behind them, there are another 6 teams within 4 games.

As brilliant of an idea as the 2nd WC was, the idea that it is a 1 game playoff is equally as brutal of an idea.

When you start talking about the winning WC team playing the first 2 games at home against the #1 seed, it looks like a plan put together at the 11th hour by a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

[Oriole85]

As brilliant of an idea as the 2nd WC was, the idea that it is a 1 game playoff is equally as brutal of an idea.

When you start talking about the winning WC team playing the first 2 games at home against the #1 seed, it looks like a plan put together at the 11th hour by a bunch of incompetent buffoons.

Peter and I have had some spirited disagreements about the 2nd wildcard so I won't rehash that here. But let's just say I think the opposite on this.

I think he is right with the last point though, the 2-3 format I believe is this year only. A complete timing issue.