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Big Ten Discussion
Started by
BSLChrisStoner
, May 20 2012 08:33 AM
256 replies to this topic
#2
BSLChrisStoner
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Posted 20 May 2012 - 08:43 AM
Two years ago yesterday, I wrote the following:
“Rumors of the University of Maryland being considered for Big Ten expansion has been a topic on Maryland message boards for years. As Big Ten expansion desires have come to the surface in recent months, seemingly half of the University’s across the country have been rumored as possibilities.
Yesterday, the Washington Examiner wrote about why an invitation to the Big Ten could become a reality for Maryland:
http://www.washingto...e-94044974.html
You can understand why Maryland would be attractive to that conference. They would gain entrance to the Washington / Baltimore media markets, add a strong academic school, and hurt the ACC in the process.
Prior to the new ACC TV contract (mentioned in the Washington Examiner article) it made more sense for Maryland.
Terrapins Athletic Director Debbie Yow has previously stated that Maryland would not look to leave the ACC. However, the Athletic Department still has trouble keeping afloat financially, and the Big Ten TV Network would make the entire department more profitable.
The flip-side to that is for major college athletics, what matters is the Football and Basketball teams.
I’ve never cared for the style of play of Big Ten basketball, but obviously it is always a quality league. Michigan State has obviously been exceptional under Izzo, Indiana has long-term pedigree, Purdue, Ohio State, Illinois, and Wisconsin are typically quality teams. Michigan and Minnesota are capable. Penn State, Northwestern, and Iowa have been traditionally poor though.
The Terrapins have been the 3rd-best team in the Atlantic Coast Conference for well over a decade. They would enter the Big Ten as one of the legitimate powers.
On the football field, Maryland is in the Atlantic Division of the ACC with Florida State, Clemson, BC, Wake Forest, and NCST. It is hard to imagine the Terps ever overtaking FSU as a football program, or having a fan-base that is as invested as Clemson. Still, that remains a division where on an annual-basis the Terps can contend. I fully expect 3 out of 10 years for the Maryland to win that division and advance to the conference title-game.
Maryland has comparable facilities and investments in football as those schools. When I start to think about Maryland in the Big Ten, I seem to automatically think about the football stadiums at Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. Even if those programs have not really been any better than Miami, Florida State, and Virginia Tech over the last-several decades, the scope of those Big Ten programs are enormous.
Someone should be asking the recruiters under Coach Friedgen if they believe recruiting to the Big Ten would be an easier or harder sell overall.
There are two main reasons in my eyes of why this would probably not happen. 1) The largest donors to the MD Athletic program, want the Terps to remain in the ACC. Their opinions would have to be changed, before such a move could be made. 2) The increased travel can not be ignored. Maryland has often been at a disadvantage compared to their conference neighbors in North Carolina with travel within in the ACC. The Terps would be looking at a longer, costlier road-trips with life in the Big Ten.
While I do not think it will happen, I would caution Maryland fans from completely dismissing the possibility. You can bet that a comprehensive review of all the potential positives and negatives are taking place, and if the dollars and cents point to the Big Ten; it would not be shocking to see this happen.”
Two years later, a lot has changed. Coach Williams and Coach Friedgen are gone. Maryland has also obtained a new Athletic Director, and University President.
The College landscape has (and continues) to change as well. Syracuse and Pittsburgh have agreed to leave the Big East to join the ACC. An overview of the many other moves can be found here (http://www.athlonspo...nment-breakdown).
Within the last week plus, there has been a lot of attention paid to comments made from the Chairman of the Board of Trustees for Florida State, who stated the board was unanimously in favor of seeing what the Big 12 might offer. Since that came out, FSU and their University President have issued statements, reaffirming FSU desire to remain part of the ACC. The President’s memo actually listed the pros and cons of leaving, with more positives for staying being listed.
However, since that occurred; the Big 12 has reached agreement with the SEC for the formation of a bowl game between those respective Conference Champions. That game will be cash-rich, and has seemingly increased the gap between the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 foursome, with the ACC and Big East as football conferences.
Last night, a Clemson blogger (Cory Fravel,@CoryFravel) stated that his sources have confirmed that Clemson has agreed in principal to join the Big 12.
While I think that the ACC breaking part is unlikely, it does seem at-least plausible. You can craft scenarios where teams in the ACC could leave the league for the Big Ten, SEC, and Big 12. Let’s say the Clemson rumor is accurate, and FSU was now tempted to join the Tigers in the Big 12. Would the SEC react by pursuing NCST, or VaTech? (Either a new media market in Raleigh, or another strong football program.)
If the ACC lost 3-4 programs (somewhat off-set by adding Syracuse, and Pitt), would that make UNC, Duke, UVA, and MD more likely to pursue affiliation with the Big Ten? (And in a potential nightmare scenario for MD, what would be the remaining options for the Terps, if the Big Ten wanted just two schools, and took UNC and Duke only?)
After seeing the Big 12 / SEC deal, Pete Fiutak wondered about the ramifications of that move in his article on Fox Sports (http://msn.foxsports...-playoff-051812), stating: “Will this force the ACC to try to make a big move to find a higher profile bowl alliance to try to set up its own ready-made playoff game? Will this make the Big Ten look further into expansion and finally tie the knot with Notre Dame, Maryland, Rutgers, or any of the other programs that have been in the discussion over the last few years?”
In a Q&A (http://btn.com/2012/...stions-roll-in/) on the Big Ten Network, Tom Dienhart was asked, “With Florida State considering looking into joining the Big 12, would it be wise for the Big Ten to offer Notre Dame again or go after other schools like Georgia Tech?”
Dienhart answered by saying, “Uh-oh, here we go again. Look, the Big Ten is NOT expanding—at least for now. I sat right next to Commissioner Delany last fall—and he basically said as much. Just because other leagues are expanding or adding teams—ACC, Big 12, SEC—the Big Ten won’t follow along like a lap dog to just expand because “everyone else is doing it.” Delany always emphasizes the Big Ten will only add a school that makes sense. Would Notre Dame make sense? No doubt, but the Irish already have told the Big Ten “no” twice. I am intrigued by Georgia Tech being a target. The same goes for Maryland. Each is a good academic school. And each would expand the Big Ten into new, heavily-populated regions which would benefit the footprint of the already successful and profitable Big Ten Network. There are so many moving parts on the conference landscape as I type this. Again, Delany will continue to monitor the situation. I guarantee you that. But he won’t act hastily—if he acts at all.”
Two years ago I thought a jump to the Big Ten was unlikely, but cautioned MD fans to not dismiss the possibility. Two years later, I basically feel the same way. With the way the landscape has changed around the Terps, I do think Maryland would be right to preemptively approach the Big Ten and at-least discuss things. Clearly the Terps would prefer to remain part of the ACC. That said, MD can not wake up two years from now, and be the ‘last man standing’ in a depleted league.
On our message board, the poster ‘jsh’ has made several posts which I think make a lot of sense. He said he believed you could see the ACC reach an agreement with Notre Dame to play each other in the Orange Bowl as long as Notre Dame has X amount of wins or is ranked in the Top 10 or 15. He also said that should the Big Ten miss out on getting Notre Dame to join that Conference, you could the Big Ten be interested in taking each of MD, UNC, Duke, and UVA. It would be a knock out punch to the ACC, leave the Big Ten as the premier basketball conference, and give the Big Ten the addition of additional media markets.
That idea is fairly attractive. If the Clemson rumors are not true, the most attractive scenario for the Terps to me is a more secure ACC. The best way to secure the ACC, would be growing to 16 teams. The two Universities which make the sense to me are Notre Dame, and UConn. While Notre Dame has resisted Conference Affiliation to date, there is a feeling what with the impending College Playoff (which might be limited to Conference Champions), and the Big 12 / SEC deal; that ND might finally be forced to make a move to a Conference. If that is accurate, the Big Ten would be the favorite to add Notre Dame, but the ACC would be a close 2nd.
As of last September, the US News & World Report rankings (http://colleges.usne...al-universities) of the current ACC schools (plus Syracuse and Pitt) were:
10) Duke
25) Virgina
25 tied) Wake Forest
29) North Carolina
31) Boston College
36) Georgia Tech
38) Miami
55) Maryland
58) Pittsburgh
62) Syracuse
68) Clemson
71) Virginia Tech
101) Florida State
101 tied) North Carolina State
West Virginia made a lot of sense for the ACC (geographically, natural rivals, football and basketball success), but because of their ranking (#164 according to US News & World Report), they were never offered by the league, and thus jumped to the Big 12.
Notre Dame was 19th in those rankings. UConn was ranked 58th. So, both Universities would fit in academically, as well as athletically. If Notre Dame was unwilling to join the ACC, Rutgers still makes some sense. They are an academic fit (68th), and you would add the NYC media market. Some remain squeamish about adding both UConn and Rutgers, saying you gain little by adding both.
The addition of both Notre Dame and UConn would give the ACC the opportunity for true ‘North’, and ‘South’ divisions.
The ACC with Notre Dame, and UConn:
ACC North: BC, UConn, ‘Cuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, Maryland, Virginia, Virgina Tech
ACC South: UNC, Duke, Wake, NCST, Clemson, GaTech, FSU, Miami
Is UConn a football power? No, of course not. However, Maryland fans are well aware that Coach Edsall built that program up from nothing to a BCS bowl. Every year, there are stories asking if Notre Dame will ever again be ‘relevant.’ It is a different world than when Notre Dame was a perennial National contender, but they are still a National program. Notre Dame is only a few years removed from having back-to-back top recruiting classes. They still move the meter as a program.
Obviously UConn would add another basketball power, and cement the ACC as the premier basketball playing league. ND has had plenty of basketball success as well.
It is clear that there are lots of variables for Maryland to be weighing here. As a fan of the Terps, how would you answer the following questions?
1) The best case scenario for Maryland long-term is?
2) The worst case scenario for Maryland long-term is?
3) In 5 years, the ACC will look like?
“Rumors of the University of Maryland being considered for Big Ten expansion has been a topic on Maryland message boards for years. As Big Ten expansion desires have come to the surface in recent months, seemingly half of the University’s across the country have been rumored as possibilities.
Yesterday, the Washington Examiner wrote about why an invitation to the Big Ten could become a reality for Maryland:
http://www.washingto...e-94044974.html
You can understand why Maryland would be attractive to that conference. They would gain entrance to the Washington / Baltimore media markets, add a strong academic school, and hurt the ACC in the process.
Prior to the new ACC TV contract (mentioned in the Washington Examiner article) it made more sense for Maryland.
Terrapins Athletic Director Debbie Yow has previously stated that Maryland would not look to leave the ACC. However, the Athletic Department still has trouble keeping afloat financially, and the Big Ten TV Network would make the entire department more profitable.
The flip-side to that is for major college athletics, what matters is the Football and Basketball teams.
I’ve never cared for the style of play of Big Ten basketball, but obviously it is always a quality league. Michigan State has obviously been exceptional under Izzo, Indiana has long-term pedigree, Purdue, Ohio State, Illinois, and Wisconsin are typically quality teams. Michigan and Minnesota are capable. Penn State, Northwestern, and Iowa have been traditionally poor though.
The Terrapins have been the 3rd-best team in the Atlantic Coast Conference for well over a decade. They would enter the Big Ten as one of the legitimate powers.
On the football field, Maryland is in the Atlantic Division of the ACC with Florida State, Clemson, BC, Wake Forest, and NCST. It is hard to imagine the Terps ever overtaking FSU as a football program, or having a fan-base that is as invested as Clemson. Still, that remains a division where on an annual-basis the Terps can contend. I fully expect 3 out of 10 years for the Maryland to win that division and advance to the conference title-game.
Maryland has comparable facilities and investments in football as those schools. When I start to think about Maryland in the Big Ten, I seem to automatically think about the football stadiums at Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. Even if those programs have not really been any better than Miami, Florida State, and Virginia Tech over the last-several decades, the scope of those Big Ten programs are enormous.
Someone should be asking the recruiters under Coach Friedgen if they believe recruiting to the Big Ten would be an easier or harder sell overall.
There are two main reasons in my eyes of why this would probably not happen. 1) The largest donors to the MD Athletic program, want the Terps to remain in the ACC. Their opinions would have to be changed, before such a move could be made. 2) The increased travel can not be ignored. Maryland has often been at a disadvantage compared to their conference neighbors in North Carolina with travel within in the ACC. The Terps would be looking at a longer, costlier road-trips with life in the Big Ten.
While I do not think it will happen, I would caution Maryland fans from completely dismissing the possibility. You can bet that a comprehensive review of all the potential positives and negatives are taking place, and if the dollars and cents point to the Big Ten; it would not be shocking to see this happen.”
Two years later, a lot has changed. Coach Williams and Coach Friedgen are gone. Maryland has also obtained a new Athletic Director, and University President.
The College landscape has (and continues) to change as well. Syracuse and Pittsburgh have agreed to leave the Big East to join the ACC. An overview of the many other moves can be found here (http://www.athlonspo...nment-breakdown).
Within the last week plus, there has been a lot of attention paid to comments made from the Chairman of the Board of Trustees for Florida State, who stated the board was unanimously in favor of seeing what the Big 12 might offer. Since that came out, FSU and their University President have issued statements, reaffirming FSU desire to remain part of the ACC. The President’s memo actually listed the pros and cons of leaving, with more positives for staying being listed.
However, since that occurred; the Big 12 has reached agreement with the SEC for the formation of a bowl game between those respective Conference Champions. That game will be cash-rich, and has seemingly increased the gap between the SEC, Big Ten, Big 12, Pac-12 foursome, with the ACC and Big East as football conferences.
Last night, a Clemson blogger (Cory Fravel,@CoryFravel) stated that his sources have confirmed that Clemson has agreed in principal to join the Big 12.
While I think that the ACC breaking part is unlikely, it does seem at-least plausible. You can craft scenarios where teams in the ACC could leave the league for the Big Ten, SEC, and Big 12. Let’s say the Clemson rumor is accurate, and FSU was now tempted to join the Tigers in the Big 12. Would the SEC react by pursuing NCST, or VaTech? (Either a new media market in Raleigh, or another strong football program.)
If the ACC lost 3-4 programs (somewhat off-set by adding Syracuse, and Pitt), would that make UNC, Duke, UVA, and MD more likely to pursue affiliation with the Big Ten? (And in a potential nightmare scenario for MD, what would be the remaining options for the Terps, if the Big Ten wanted just two schools, and took UNC and Duke only?)
After seeing the Big 12 / SEC deal, Pete Fiutak wondered about the ramifications of that move in his article on Fox Sports (http://msn.foxsports...-playoff-051812), stating: “Will this force the ACC to try to make a big move to find a higher profile bowl alliance to try to set up its own ready-made playoff game? Will this make the Big Ten look further into expansion and finally tie the knot with Notre Dame, Maryland, Rutgers, or any of the other programs that have been in the discussion over the last few years?”
In a Q&A (http://btn.com/2012/...stions-roll-in/) on the Big Ten Network, Tom Dienhart was asked, “With Florida State considering looking into joining the Big 12, would it be wise for the Big Ten to offer Notre Dame again or go after other schools like Georgia Tech?”
Dienhart answered by saying, “Uh-oh, here we go again. Look, the Big Ten is NOT expanding—at least for now. I sat right next to Commissioner Delany last fall—and he basically said as much. Just because other leagues are expanding or adding teams—ACC, Big 12, SEC—the Big Ten won’t follow along like a lap dog to just expand because “everyone else is doing it.” Delany always emphasizes the Big Ten will only add a school that makes sense. Would Notre Dame make sense? No doubt, but the Irish already have told the Big Ten “no” twice. I am intrigued by Georgia Tech being a target. The same goes for Maryland. Each is a good academic school. And each would expand the Big Ten into new, heavily-populated regions which would benefit the footprint of the already successful and profitable Big Ten Network. There are so many moving parts on the conference landscape as I type this. Again, Delany will continue to monitor the situation. I guarantee you that. But he won’t act hastily—if he acts at all.”
Two years ago I thought a jump to the Big Ten was unlikely, but cautioned MD fans to not dismiss the possibility. Two years later, I basically feel the same way. With the way the landscape has changed around the Terps, I do think Maryland would be right to preemptively approach the Big Ten and at-least discuss things. Clearly the Terps would prefer to remain part of the ACC. That said, MD can not wake up two years from now, and be the ‘last man standing’ in a depleted league.
On our message board, the poster ‘jsh’ has made several posts which I think make a lot of sense. He said he believed you could see the ACC reach an agreement with Notre Dame to play each other in the Orange Bowl as long as Notre Dame has X amount of wins or is ranked in the Top 10 or 15. He also said that should the Big Ten miss out on getting Notre Dame to join that Conference, you could the Big Ten be interested in taking each of MD, UNC, Duke, and UVA. It would be a knock out punch to the ACC, leave the Big Ten as the premier basketball conference, and give the Big Ten the addition of additional media markets.
That idea is fairly attractive. If the Clemson rumors are not true, the most attractive scenario for the Terps to me is a more secure ACC. The best way to secure the ACC, would be growing to 16 teams. The two Universities which make the sense to me are Notre Dame, and UConn. While Notre Dame has resisted Conference Affiliation to date, there is a feeling what with the impending College Playoff (which might be limited to Conference Champions), and the Big 12 / SEC deal; that ND might finally be forced to make a move to a Conference. If that is accurate, the Big Ten would be the favorite to add Notre Dame, but the ACC would be a close 2nd.
As of last September, the US News & World Report rankings (http://colleges.usne...al-universities) of the current ACC schools (plus Syracuse and Pitt) were:
10) Duke
25) Virgina
25 tied) Wake Forest
29) North Carolina
31) Boston College
36) Georgia Tech
38) Miami
55) Maryland
58) Pittsburgh
62) Syracuse
68) Clemson
71) Virginia Tech
101) Florida State
101 tied) North Carolina State
West Virginia made a lot of sense for the ACC (geographically, natural rivals, football and basketball success), but because of their ranking (#164 according to US News & World Report), they were never offered by the league, and thus jumped to the Big 12.
Notre Dame was 19th in those rankings. UConn was ranked 58th. So, both Universities would fit in academically, as well as athletically. If Notre Dame was unwilling to join the ACC, Rutgers still makes some sense. They are an academic fit (68th), and you would add the NYC media market. Some remain squeamish about adding both UConn and Rutgers, saying you gain little by adding both.
The addition of both Notre Dame and UConn would give the ACC the opportunity for true ‘North’, and ‘South’ divisions.
The ACC with Notre Dame, and UConn:
ACC North: BC, UConn, ‘Cuse, Pitt, Notre Dame, Maryland, Virginia, Virgina Tech
ACC South: UNC, Duke, Wake, NCST, Clemson, GaTech, FSU, Miami
Is UConn a football power? No, of course not. However, Maryland fans are well aware that Coach Edsall built that program up from nothing to a BCS bowl. Every year, there are stories asking if Notre Dame will ever again be ‘relevant.’ It is a different world than when Notre Dame was a perennial National contender, but they are still a National program. Notre Dame is only a few years removed from having back-to-back top recruiting classes. They still move the meter as a program.
Obviously UConn would add another basketball power, and cement the ACC as the premier basketball playing league. ND has had plenty of basketball success as well.
It is clear that there are lots of variables for Maryland to be weighing here. As a fan of the Terps, how would you answer the following questions?
1) The best case scenario for Maryland long-term is?
2) The worst case scenario for Maryland long-term is?
3) In 5 years, the ACC will look like?
#3
BSLMikeLowe
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Posted 20 May 2012 - 06:51 PM
If FSU and Clemson/someone else bolt, hopefully the league redoes the basketball scheduling format and matches the Terps up as an annual home-home rival with someone other than Pitt. Still not liking that shotgun marriage at all.
#4
Oriole85
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Posted 21 May 2012 - 11:22 AM
The Big Ten would be an absolute horrible fit for Maryland in all aspects-- especially, athletically and geographically -- the Big East would even be better. First of all, it would be an absolute disaster for football. The Terps have been 2-10 in two of the past three seasons in football. Now trying playing Michigans, Ohio States, and Penn States every season. All three of those stadiums are over 100k, MD would have a lot to make up in the arms race, revenue sharing notwithstanding.
In terms of basketball, Maryland is traditionally a basketball-first school, playing in the ACC, a basketball-first conference. The Big Ten, while a good basketball conference is much more football heavy. The rivalries are already in place. Can MD develop ones with Michigan State and Iowa, I guess, but it's much less likely.
Geographically speaking, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc probably don't have too many Terp alums compared to the ACC footprint and they are much more remote.
In terms of media exposure and revenue, this is the one area it might help. However, I still don't want to see it.
In terms of basketball, Maryland is traditionally a basketball-first school, playing in the ACC, a basketball-first conference. The Big Ten, while a good basketball conference is much more football heavy. The rivalries are already in place. Can MD develop ones with Michigan State and Iowa, I guess, but it's much less likely.
Geographically speaking, Nebraska, Iowa, Wisconsin, etc probably don't have too many Terp alums compared to the ACC footprint and they are much more remote.
In terms of media exposure and revenue, this is the one area it might help. However, I still don't want to see it.
@levineps
#5
BSLMikeLowe
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Posted 21 May 2012 - 01:55 PM
To be in a conference that is relevant enough in football to generate enough revenues for UM to compete nationally in all sports, and especially football and men's basketball. Whether the ACC will be at that level remains to be seen, but it looks a lot shakier right now than it has at any other point in time.1) The best case scenario for Maryland long-term is?
The opposite of the first answer. While UM's conference-generated revenues might not decline in a gutted ACC, they certainly won't keep up with the power conferences, and all UM sports would suffer as a result....including the potential of cutting more teams.2) The worst case scenario for Maryland long-term is?
That's the million dollar question. I'm thinking that FSU and Clemson will be gone, but I'm far less certain we'll see a mass exodus. I think the most likely scenario is that neither the SEC or Big Ten look to expand that quickly, so the ACC stays at 12, with the Pitt-Syracuse additions, and makes a go of it. But they are going to have to find a way to make more money to avoid becoming irrelevant like the Big East. The bowl game with Notre Dame that's been discussed sounds promising, but that alone won't be enough The ESPN TV deal looks worse and worse every day.3) In 5 years, the ACC will look like?
#6
jsh
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Posted 22 May 2012 - 09:06 AM
Best case, still in an ACC that has seen zero defections. Worst case? Stuck in an ACC that has seen mass defections. Where will they likely be? I'm still saying it'll be the best case scenario here. If not that then I think they're in a 12 team ACC that has lost Clemson and FSU.
@jsh2185
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Nuclear Dish
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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:52 PM
I want to comment on Chris's nightmare scenario in which UNC and dook head to the B1G, while Clemson and FSU go to the Big XII and VT and NCSU go to the SEC.
First of all, that would leave Maryland in a conference with MIA, GT, SYR, BC, PITT, WF, and UVA. You'd have to think that such a conference would move quickly to add UCONN, Rutgers, and probably SFLA and CIN. You could do a lot worse than a conference like that. It's a whole lot better than the MWC, WAC, CUSA, and other lesser D-I conferences, and it might even be reasonably better than the current Big East. And I didn't even include Louisville, which would throw in another big program if they aren't snapped up by the Big XII too.
Second, this scenario would NEVER happen. There are a couple major reasons why:
1. If the B1G raids the ACC, there are exactly 2 programs they want: UNC and Maryland. Not dook. Maryland and UNC both fit the mold of the B1G school - large state university flagship schools with good academics and large comprehensive athletic programs. dook and State do not. (Granted Northwestern and Purdue don't exactly fit either.) And more importantly, UNC brings two burgeoning markets with it (Charlotte and Raleigh), and Maryland brings two large markets as well (Baltimore and DC). dook adds a national fan base but no particular markets (Charlotte is pretty much all UNC, and Raleigh is split between UNC and State, with a few dookies thrown in). State brings Raleigh, but that is less important than Charlotte. UVA, BTW, fits the first criterion (large flagship state U with good academics and large athletic program), but not the second (Charlottesville isn't a market). GT and MIA fit the second, but not the first.
2. UNC isn't going anywhere without State and dook. They are financially tied to State to such a degree that the state legislature would never allow UNC to be the one to sever those ties. If State wants to go elsewhere, they are going to have to make the case themselves and be the one to get that ball rolling. And the cultural and rivalry ties to dook are too strong for Carolina to go anywhere without them. No amount of money is worth it to either school to walk away from the greatest rivalry in sports.
So the only real question here is whether the B1G is willing to give away 3 spots in order to get UNC. And the answer is most definitively NO. Why not? Because if they take 3, they have to take a 4th, which would either be Maryland (thereby nullifying the nightmare scenario) or Notre Dame.
If that 4th is Notre Dame, it's a great move, except that if they get ND, they may as well just add one, not 3. And if they do that, the one is likely to be Maryland (or Rutgers, if Maryland says no). Maryland is geographically closer, doesn't come with the baggage Carolina does (i.e., dook and State), and accesses even better markets than Carolina.
If ND isn't ready to join the B1G, the conference has no interest in removing itself from the ND sweepstakes in order to get UNC, so again, no nightmare scenario for Maryland.
To summarize:
- B1G wants ND first and foremost.
- If B1G gets ND, it would look to fill only 1 spot. B1G wants MD for the second spot. If MD says no, it wants Rutgers.
- B1G would want UNC ahead of Rutgers, but UNC won't go without NCSU and dook, and there's virtually no chance of B1G giving away 3 spots just to get UNC.
First of all, that would leave Maryland in a conference with MIA, GT, SYR, BC, PITT, WF, and UVA. You'd have to think that such a conference would move quickly to add UCONN, Rutgers, and probably SFLA and CIN. You could do a lot worse than a conference like that. It's a whole lot better than the MWC, WAC, CUSA, and other lesser D-I conferences, and it might even be reasonably better than the current Big East. And I didn't even include Louisville, which would throw in another big program if they aren't snapped up by the Big XII too.
Second, this scenario would NEVER happen. There are a couple major reasons why:
1. If the B1G raids the ACC, there are exactly 2 programs they want: UNC and Maryland. Not dook. Maryland and UNC both fit the mold of the B1G school - large state university flagship schools with good academics and large comprehensive athletic programs. dook and State do not. (Granted Northwestern and Purdue don't exactly fit either.) And more importantly, UNC brings two burgeoning markets with it (Charlotte and Raleigh), and Maryland brings two large markets as well (Baltimore and DC). dook adds a national fan base but no particular markets (Charlotte is pretty much all UNC, and Raleigh is split between UNC and State, with a few dookies thrown in). State brings Raleigh, but that is less important than Charlotte. UVA, BTW, fits the first criterion (large flagship state U with good academics and large athletic program), but not the second (Charlottesville isn't a market). GT and MIA fit the second, but not the first.
2. UNC isn't going anywhere without State and dook. They are financially tied to State to such a degree that the state legislature would never allow UNC to be the one to sever those ties. If State wants to go elsewhere, they are going to have to make the case themselves and be the one to get that ball rolling. And the cultural and rivalry ties to dook are too strong for Carolina to go anywhere without them. No amount of money is worth it to either school to walk away from the greatest rivalry in sports.
So the only real question here is whether the B1G is willing to give away 3 spots in order to get UNC. And the answer is most definitively NO. Why not? Because if they take 3, they have to take a 4th, which would either be Maryland (thereby nullifying the nightmare scenario) or Notre Dame.
If that 4th is Notre Dame, it's a great move, except that if they get ND, they may as well just add one, not 3. And if they do that, the one is likely to be Maryland (or Rutgers, if Maryland says no). Maryland is geographically closer, doesn't come with the baggage Carolina does (i.e., dook and State), and accesses even better markets than Carolina.
If ND isn't ready to join the B1G, the conference has no interest in removing itself from the ND sweepstakes in order to get UNC, so again, no nightmare scenario for Maryland.
To summarize:
- B1G wants ND first and foremost.
- If B1G gets ND, it would look to fill only 1 spot. B1G wants MD for the second spot. If MD says no, it wants Rutgers.
- B1G would want UNC ahead of Rutgers, but UNC won't go without NCSU and dook, and there's virtually no chance of B1G giving away 3 spots just to get UNC.
"Three thousand years of beautiful tradition, from Moses to Sandy Koufax..."
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#8
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Posted 23 May 2012 - 08:41 AM
I personally think that unless the ACC can add ND and another school (Louisville? Rutgers? UConn?), we're in trouble. I think people are making too much of the exit fee. I think the Big 12 would contribute to that and help with the cost. Then again, I don't really see why the Big 12 benefits greatly from adding FSU & Clemson from the standpoint of schools currently in the conference. Part of me thinks this is a ploy by FSU & Clemson to get more money from the ACC.
Someone suggested an Orange Bowl tie in with the ACC & ND - I think that's your ideal scenario that keeps the ACC alive. But I'm still really worried about the FSU & Clemson bolting. If they do, I just can't see how the ACC can survive and not be 2nd class citizens (even more so then now) in College Football.
Someone suggested an Orange Bowl tie in with the ACC & ND - I think that's your ideal scenario that keeps the ACC alive. But I'm still really worried about the FSU & Clemson bolting. If they do, I just can't see how the ACC can survive and not be 2nd class citizens (even more so then now) in College Football.
@TestudoDave
#10
Mackus
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:24 AM
I can't explain how disappointed and upset I would be if Maryland leaves the ACC.
#11
BSLChrisStoner
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 10:34 AM
I can't explain how disappointed and upset I would be if Maryland leaves the ACC.
I said on Facebook the other night that the MD to the Big Ten rumors were hard to believe as a likely possibility even before the ACC considerably raised the exit fees.
However, the more I read, the more it seems likes moving to the Big Ten would be far more profitable for the University (even with that exit fee), due to the revenue of the Big Ten Network, and more importantly; the increase in research dollars.
That said, I agree with you overall. I don't want to see MD leave the ACC. I will say that I'm not afraid of MD being perennial bottom feeders in football in the Big Ten. If the program is operating optimally, they can be the Top 35 program they should be in any conference. (Regularly competitive, 7-8 wins, lower-tier bowl. Occasionally worse, occasionally better.)
#12
ravens8589
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 12:10 PM
I will be extremely disappointed if they leave the ACC. Besides the competition part of it, the ACC has always been Maryland for me. And, Syracuse is moving to the ACC so I would be able to catch Maryland games up here in NY, but I guess not if this is true.
@Langley486
#13
Mike B
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:29 PM
This is 100% about money. I will not be happy if Maryland leaves the ACC, especially with ND, Syracuse and Pitt coming in for Basketball.
@mikeghg
#14
ravens8589
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 01:37 PM
It is aggravating because the competition got better, making the ACC a stronger conference. It is 100% about money, and that is a shame.This is 100% about money. I will not be happy if Maryland leaves the ACC, especially with ND, Syracuse and Pitt coming in for Basketball.
@Langley486
#15
BSLMikeLowe
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:23 PM
3 Words:
Fifty.
Million.
Dollars.
That's the going rate for getting out of the ACC these days. Is it really worth it? Especially for an athletic department that just had to cut 7 sports? It would probably take a decade in the Big Ten just to break even.
Fifty.
Million.
Dollars.
That's the going rate for getting out of the ACC these days. Is it really worth it? Especially for an athletic department that just had to cut 7 sports? It would probably take a decade in the Big Ten just to break even.
#16
BSLMikeLowe
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 02:36 PM
I should mention that despite my post above, I'd be perfectly fine with it if they did go. I just don't have the sentimentality for the ACC that many do. The conference today doesn't come close to resembling what it was in its heyday, and the expansion that was supposed to be a big boost for football has been a failure. The Terps have always been an outsider in the ACC, and even though they obviously would be one in the B1G also, they would get more money (eventually) and national exposure for their trouble. And I could look forward to watching games on the Big Ten Network instead of freakin' ESPN3. 
#17
BSLChrisStoner
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:15 PM
National Football Post: Maryland to Big Ten is 'pretty serious'
http://sports.yahoo....00708--nfl.html
http://sports.yahoo....00708--nfl.html
#18
Chris B
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#19
SportsGuy
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:18 PM
I would hate to see MD leave the ACC.
#20
Chris B
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Posted 17 November 2012 - 05:29 PM
I would hate to see MD leave the ACC.
I don't know of any fan that really wants this move to happen. The only reason it makes sense is for finances, and that is just a terrible excuse (though clearly its the trend in college sports). Maryland has rivals in the ACC; its entire history is in this conference.
Going to the Big Ten is going to be very disappointing.
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