388 replies to this topic

[BSLMikeLowe]

IIRC, one of the sticking points when Texas(and other schools) flirted with the Pac-12 last year was The Longhorn Network.

The big thing to me about the Pac-12 is the lack of overlap in the BCS conferences, they pretty much have everything west of Texas

Yeah, the Pac-12 won't bend on the Longhorn Network (conference owns/sells all TV rights) and UT won't give it up. As long as it exists it will always be a barrier to Texas joining, and there may not be a middle ground on which to compromise.

The Pac-12 is the only BCS conference without an overlap. Of course with the geography and population disbursement out here, there are no other expansion options that make financial sense for the Pac-12 other than Texas. BYU does have some appeal (well-known brand, national following among LDS), but they were long rumored to be a Pac expansion target and the conference insisted it wasn't interested because BYU doesn't fit their profile and the ban on Sunday games created too many scheduling problems for non-revenue sports.

[Oriole85]

Yeah, the Pac-12 won't bend on the Longhorn Network (conference owns/sells all TV rights) and UT won't give it up. As long as it exists it will always be a barrier to Texas joining, and there may not be a middle ground on which to compromise.

The Pac-12 is the only BCS conference without an overlap. Of course with the geography and population disbursement out here, there are no other expansion options that make financial sense for the Pac-12 other than Texas. BYU does have some appeal (well-known brand, national following among LDS), but they were long rumored to be a Pac expansion target and the conference insisted it wasn't interested because BYU doesn't fit their profile and the ban on Sunday games created too many scheduling problems for non-revenue sports.

I don't follow the "non-revenue" sports, but thats a major problem in terms of basketball. Since they schedule the league game mostly on Thursdays and Sat/Sun with a partner team(example: Oregon/Oregon State would play at Arizona and ASU on the same weekend). Hard to see who Colorado's "partner team" could be if BYU joined.

[BSLMikeLowe]

I don't follow the "non-revenue" sports, but thats a major problem in terms of basketball. Since they schedule the league game mostly on Thursdays and Sat/Sun with a partner team(example: Oregon/Oregon State would play at Arizona and ASU on the same weekend). Hard to see who Colorado's "partner team" could be if BYU joined.

I now that it used to be most MBB games were scheduled on Thursdays and Saturdays. Did they move some to Sundays for the new TV contract?...I really don't follow Pac-12 hoops much. They could probably work that out for one school without too much trouble, and the tournament holds its final on Saturday so that they don't have to have a real early tipoff to be finished in time for Selection Sunday. But it would still be a pain for a lot of other sports....especially thinking of baseball where teams play 3-game weekend series. I think BYU schedules a lot of Saturday double-headers because of the Sunday ban.

I guess Air Force could be Colorado's "partner." If the Pac-12 is going to bring in a religious-based, non-research institution, might as well add a service academy while they're at it.

[Oriole85]

I now that it used to be most MBB games were scheduled on Thursdays and Saturdays. Did they move some to Sundays for the new TV contract?...I really don't follow Pac-12 hoops much. They could probably work that out for one school without too much trouble, and the tournament holds its final on Saturday so that they don't have to have a real early tipoff to be finished in time for Selection Sunday. But it would still be a pain for a lot of other sports....especially thinking of baseball where teams play 3-game weekend series. I think BYU schedules a lot of Saturday double-headers because of the Sunday ban.

I guess Air Force could be Colorado's "partner." If the Pac-12 is going to bring in a religious-based, non-research institution, might as well add a service academy while they're at it.

Just checked Colorado's Pac-12 schedule, 3 Sunday games/2 Wed games. Guessing other schools have similar amount, it's mostly Thur/Sat. The Wed games might be new, I don't recall any last year. So it wouldn't be a huge problem and the P12 Finals are early evening Saturday.

I don't think the non-revenue sports are holding back BYU entrance, because they don't matter in the grand scheme of things. After all, if MD cared about non-revenue sports enough, they wouldn't go to the Big 10 to displace two of their most successful programs (lacrosse/soccer), you could argue women's basketball and some other sports as well will "suffer" from this move.

I almost think CSU would be more likely than Air Force, which is pretty unlikely without major upgrades from them, I know they are planning an on-campus football stadium. I'd put Boise State and maybe, San Diego State ahead of both, even if they lack being a true "partner" with CU.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Just checked Colorado's Pac-12 schedule, 3 Sunday games/2 Wed games. Guessing other schools have similar amount, it's mostly Thur/Sat. The Wed games might be new, I don't recall any last year. So it wouldn't be a huge problem and the P12 Finals are early evening Saturday.

I don't think the non-revenue sports are holding back BYU entrance, because they don't matter in the grand scheme of things. After all, if MD cared about non-revenue sports enough, they wouldn't go to the Big 10 to displace two of their most successful programs (lacrosse/soccer), you could argue women's basketball and some other sports as well will "suffer" from this move.

I almost think CSU would be more likely than Air Force, which is pretty unlikely without major upgrades from them, I know they are planning an on-campus football stadium. I'd put Boise State and maybe, San Diego State ahead of both, even if they lack being a true "partner" with CU.

I think the perspective on non-revenue sports is different when you are the conference adding one school that will upset the scheduling, versus being the school that might have to deal with some changes to accommodate your new conference (or in UM's case with lacrosse if your new conference doesn't even sponsor it). And BYU has publicly stated they are adamant about keeping the Sunday ban, so they apparently have no intention of compromising.

Might as well add New Mexico to the mix. They expand the footprint for the network (albeit not a heavily populated state), they have a solid basketball program, and I don't think Albuquerque is much farther from Boulder than Salt Lake City is. When you get down to choices like Air Force, CSU or Boise State, it's almost splitting hairs as to which one might actually add value to the conference aside from merely bringing a numerical and geographical balance. The thing about Air Force and CSU is that neither expands the footprint for the Pac 12 Network. Of course neither does BYU, but they still have a national following with the LDS church that might help get the network on in some out-of-footprint markets that don't currently get it....even though that usually only amounts to a few cents per subscriber, it's better than nothing.

[Oriole85]

I think the perspective on non-revenue sports is different when you are the conference adding one school that will upset the scheduling, versus being the school that might have to deal with some changes to accommodate your new conference (or in UM's case with lacrosse if your new conference doesn't even sponsor it). And BYU has publicly stated they are adamant about keeping the Sunday ban, so they apparently have no intention of compromising.

Might as well add New Mexico to the mix. They expand the footprint for the network (albeit not a heavily populated state), they have a solid basketball program, and I don't think Albuquerque is much farther from Boulder than Salt Lake City is. When you get down to choices like Air Force, CSU or Boise State, it's almost splitting hairs as to which one might actually add value to the conference aside from merely bringing a numerical and geographical balance. The thing about Air Force and CSU is that neither expands the footprint for the Pac 12 Network. Of course neither does BYU, but they still have a national following with the LDS church that might help get the network on in some out-of-footprint markets that don't currently get it....even though that usually only amounts to a few cents per subscriber, it's better than nothing.

Albuquerque is about 8 hours to Denver (and Denver is 45 mins from Boulder), I did the drive last year. Bottomline, none of these schools were discussing are too feasible. If New Mexico's football program was as good as it's basketball program it might be a match. These moves are dictated by football and media markets, and adding even the state of New Mexico doesn't do much. Might as well put UNLV in the conversation as well. Pac-12 is having the basketball tourney in Vegas this year and believe at least the next few after that.

[Chris B]

@McMurphyESPN: BE hoops schools expected to release statement on future plans in 24-48 hours." our story will be up soon.

[Chris B]

@McMurphyESPN
BIg East hoops schools expected to release statement on future plans in coming days. Source told @espn would be an "upset" if they remained

http://espn.go.com/c... ... ources-say

This makes for a very long, difficult, procrastination-filled day of studying for my econ and accounting exams tomorrow.

Sources say that it is likely that the Catholic 7 will add 3 schools to the mix if they do indeed split. Based off of what sources said earlier, those 3 would likely be Xavier, Butler, and St. Louis (which would fit well to have 5 Midwest schools and 5 East schools). This would create a 10 team league with a true 18-game, round-robin conference schedule.

It also leaves room for future expansion. While this wouldn't be truly important (since none of these schools play football), let's say the ACC is raided again. Notre Dame may be displeased with their competition and return to their Catholic brethren. Then, the new basketball conference could add Notre Dame (which I'm sure it would love to do) and another school to get to 12.

[Chris B]

Gary Parrish ‏@GaryParrishCBS
Multiple sources confirmed to @CBSSports that the Big East's basketball-only schools plan to separate themselves -- http://cbsprt.co/UGKG4M

Adam Zagoria ‏@AdamZagoria
Hearing Xavier, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, Gonzaga and St. Mary's all among targets to join the former Big East Catholic schools

[BSLChrisStoner]

Is the Big East going to acknowledge their death, or try and continue to fly the banner of a conference that really no longer exists?

[Chris B]

Is the Big East going to acknowledge their death, or try and continue to fly the banner of a conference that really no longer exists?

I think it depends how what the bylaws say. If the Catholics own the Big East name (which many think they do), they will keep it. I'd expect a long, drawn-out court process to decide all of this in the upcoming months. They have to figure out the name, NCAA tournament credits, MSG, etc.

[Oriole85]

http://espn.go.com/c... ... ources-say

This makes for a very long, difficult, procrastination-filled day of studying for my econ and accounting exams tomorrow.

Sources say that it is likely that the Catholic 7 will add 3 schools to the mix if they do indeed split. Based off of what sources said earlier, those 3 would likely be Xavier, Butler, and St. Louis (which would fit well to have 5 Midwest schools and 5 East schools). This would create a 10 team league with a true 18-game, round-robin conference schedule.

It also leaves room for future expansion. While this wouldn't be truly important (since none of these schools play football), let's say the ACC is raided again. Notre Dame may be displeased with their competition and return to their Catholic brethren. Then, the new basketball conference could add Notre Dame (which I'm sure it would love to do) and another school to get to 12.

I doubt Notre Dame would leave the ACC unless they had to.

[Oriole85]

Is the Big East going to acknowledge their death, or try and continue to fly the banner of a conference that really no longer exists?

Probably not until it really "dies." I don't think the ACC is going to acknowledge that it's not the same conference as it once was either though. All the window dressing... CUSA --> Big East --> ACC --> Big 12/Big 10/SEC.

[Chris B]

http://espn.go.com/c... ... -framework

It's official. The Catholic 7 will leave the Big East. Kind of surprised by the way they went about it...it sounds like UConn/Temple group will retain the BE name, while the Catholics make a new name.

If they don't pay the exit fee, they can't leave until 2015. However, with all of the credits, exit fee revenue, and MSG at stake, I think you'll see both sides negotiate for an earlier departure.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Good move for the Catholic schools. I have a hard time imagining that the value of Big East football would be of any benefit to them now.

Anyone want to guess where the "Big East" goes from here? I guess as of right now the only members with full voting rights are UConn, Cincy, USF, and maybe Temple.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Good move for the Catholic schools. I have a hard time imagining that the value of Big East football would be of any benefit to them now.

Anyone want to guess where the "Big East" goes from here? I guess as of right now the only members with full voting rights are UConn, Cincy, USF, and maybe Temple.

I guess the immediate question for the Big East, is will all of the schools joining as football members... actually come? If Boise State does not come, everything might fall apart.

The future full members are:
UConn
Cincy
USF
UCF
Houston
Memphis
SMU
Temple
Tulane

Future associate members
Boise State
Navy
San Diego State
East Carolina

There are still some good markets there, and some good basketball... but I have to think the brand has been damaged to a point they might not recover. Of course, if none of the schools have any where better to go, that unites them.

[BSLMikeLowe]

At this point, I have a hard time believing that the TV value of the prospective conference will be worth the travel for Boise State and SD State....despite the fact that the Mountain West's TV deal is terrible, even for a middling conference. When the rumor surfaced that Boise and SD were talking about staying in the MWC, it was also said BYU was asking about returning. Perhaps if those three were to return it could allow for the conference to do some sort of renegotiation of the TV deal?

I'm not sure what kind of money CUSA is getting, although I know they did just start a new TV deal. I just think it's still going to be hard for the Big East to negotiate a television deal right now. Even with all of the defections that have already happened, you now have Boise and SD wavering, while UConn and Cincy are still begging to get out. If I'm a network, I don't put much more than a lowball offer on the table right now, without assurances of what I'd be buying.

[Oriole85]

I think the point where it didn't become so viable for Boise to stay was when they didn't get an automatic bid, placing all the non-AQs essentially for getting most likely one at-large spot.

[BSLMikeLowe]

Today's Moment of Irony: In April 2011, ESPN offered the Big East a deal that would pay each full member $14 million/yr over 9-years (basketball-only members would get $2.5 million/yr). Despite then-commissioner John Marinatto's recommendation to accept, the Big East turned it down. It was heavy lobbying from 4 schools that were the catalyst for declining....West Virginia, Pitt, Rutgers and Georgetown. None of those schools will be members of the conference in 2 more years.

[Oriole85]

ESPN: Can those fleeing Big East afford to do so?

http://espn.go.com/b...afford-to-do-so