520 replies to this topic

[Pedro Cerrano]

Didn’t Francona retire cuz of health? It’s not like Cleveland forced him out right? Odd

[BaltBird 24]

Francona took a Boston team that couldn't break through with Grady Little (though they did make it to game 7 of the ALCS) and won a World Series his first year.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Didn’t Francona retire cuz of health? It’s not like Cleveland forced him out right? Odd

Yeah but Kurkjian or someone else was saying in the summer he felt ready to come back already

[russsnyder]

It was me.

You did, you also mentioned that you thought that Maddon may stay retired because of his age.

He's 70, a Renaissance man, and has been retired for several years.

I seriously doubt he comes back to a dugout.

[makoman]

With all the talk of guys like Francona, Maddon, even Buck...I'm not going to go as far as 2035 does to say that Elias wants a puppet, but I do think it's likely that whenever he makes a change the new hire would have to be on board with his organizational philosophy. Whatever that is precisely I can't say. But the platoon advantages, exit velocity and launch angle--I'm sure that's not all Hyde. There's probably a lot more that us laymen don't really even see much data on. Someone who's been managing 20+ years with lots of success...I'm not saying they never want to learn new things, but I don't think they want to be told how to manage either. It could be difficult to get a manager with a long and successful resume, unless his views are already quite similar to Elias's. For one example, while we were high up in some other years, we were 26th in the league in getting the platoon advantage in 2014, 23rd in 2016. 

 

But anyway, it's a moot point this offseason, but I think if next season goes the same or worse a change is probable.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

We don't know what he did or didn't do. We do know the results were bad, in the 2nd half at least.

I'm not big on having a fall guy just to have a fall guy. Ultimately I think it's on the players, but others are welcome to think differently.

Manager should be based on results. Even you said that. Now as to what he did or didn't do.

1. Results sucked for 4 months
2. Trotted Adley out there most every game and never moved him below 5.
3. No changes made in coaching staff.

All I need to know to say anything he did do, if in fact he did anything, was nothing more than lip service.

[Hooded Viper]

Manager should be based on results. Even you said that. Now as to what he did or didn't do.
1. Results sucked for 4 months
2. Trotted Adley out there most every game and never moved him below 5.
3. No changes made in coaching staff.
All I need to know to say anything he did do, if in fact he did anything, was nothing more than lip service.

Back to back playoff runs, albeit short ones, for the first time since 96-97 and an AL East Championship. Those are results too. Hyde will be on the hot seat this coming year, and I think he deserves one more shot.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Back to back playoff runs, albeit short ones, for the first time since 96-97 and an AL East Championship. Those are results too. Hyde will be on the hot seat this coming year, and I think he deserves one more shot.

He already had 2 shots. And to me the question is did they make the playoffs because of him or in spite of him?

[mweb08]

Some general thoughts after being at OPACY for those two incredibly frustrating games and now having reflected some on that and the season at large:

 

- There's been a lot of leadership talk on here and there very well may be some merit, but I think overall we're just guessing on that and some of the more specific takes have been weird to me (the reaction to Kjerstad getting hit in the head, blaming leadership for two players not hustling out of the box even though those examples were far from atypical league wide) and some have been blown out of proportion imo (the arguing over balls and strikes most notably). Leadership may have been to blame here for the past few months of meh baseball, but I think other things likely bigger culprits (more on that later). Leadership may also have been to blame for this 2 game sweep, if it was, that would have to be rather directly tied to the lack of offense, because that was obviously why they lost as the pitching and defense did its job. 

 

- Speaking of the lack of offense, unless I missed something as it was harder to tell from my splash zone seats on Wednesday, I believe we were negative 2 runs for the series as it related to the wall. Each game being negative 1 with each game being a 1 run loss of course. So that's not great, but of course it's an incredibly small sample size. I would like to see the team constructed more purposefully to take advantage of this very unusual park design though assuming the wall will remain as is.

 

- That the series was such a small sample size and we only lost by one run in each game makes it harder for me to reach any grand conclusions from it. That goes back to the leadership point, but also just anything that suggests this team isn't built for this. Combined with the 3 game sweep last year, it becomes a bit more concerning, but still not something where I know major change is needed.

 

- As for the likely bigger culprits for the mid baseball of the past few months and the 2 game sweep, obviously the offense takes the lion share of the blame. The Westburg injury, Adley and Holliday being awful plus Mayo in his very limited time were the biggest reasons for that. Gunner tailed off too and we didn't get what we need out of first base / DH during that time (maybe unless Rivera was playing there lol). I tend to think that Adley was compensating for injury and that he will rebound. Holliday, Mayo, and Kjerstad will be paramount to future success assuming they're in the lineup next year. I'm certainly not giving up on the former two although what we saw was somewhat concerning.

 

- The bullpen was the other major culprit of the poor few months of ball. Luckily Felix will be back and Kimbrel is gone so those are huge positives for next year.

 

- The rotation did its job overall and in the brief playoff stint, but that would have been even better without the injuries and Burns' awful stretch. Bradish and Grayson would have presumably helped even though we need Rodriguez to step it up next year.

 

- Elias should have done more to help the team down the stretch run. The key exception was Eflin, so great job by him and all hail Mackus for being such an advocate for acquiring him. 

 

- On Elias' decision to keep Hyde, I can go either way here but would have preferred the other way only to avoid all the Hyde chatter on this board. Some of it is overstated and it's crazy how some keep attributing organizational decisions and philosophy to Hyde, which frustrates me, but as I've said, I'm not even a Hyde proponent, I'm just not sure he is part of the problem. 

 

- Anyway, this team still has a lot of talent, mostly young and cheap, and I still believe more in the randomness of the very small sample size playoff series' than this team just isn't built for it. Hopefully Elias will make the team better for 2025. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

They have to change the DNA of the roster. Period. They need more fire. They need to play better fundamental baseball. The lack of awareness of outs for example happened no less than 4 times down the stretch and in the playoffs. They need to put together better ABs.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Moreover, even if they havent plateaued under Hyde they still will have the playoff monkey. Say they bounce back with another 95+ win AL East division winning season next year. The pressure is squarely back on in Oct. Theyve lost 10 in a row as an org. The manager and core has lost 5 in a row. Its a thing now and I dont like the way any of them have dealt with pressure so far. I think we can all agree with that

[You Play to Win the Game]

They’ve lost 10 straight playoff games. This regime has lost 5 straight. Definitely a playoff monkey situation going on, which won’t help given they clearly perform worse the more pressure there is. Bunch of beta’s.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

They’ve lost 10 straight playoff games. This regime has lost 5 straight. Definitely a playoff monkey situation going on, which won’t help given they clearly perform worse the more pressure there is. Bunch of beta’s.

100. Soft. How early did I tell you that this year. I remember telling you I felt that way when things were still going very well. Change the DNA !!

[BSLRoseKatz]

- Speaking of the lack of offense, unless I missed something as it was harder to tell from my splash zone seats on Wednesday, I believe we were negative 2 runs for the series as it related to the wall. Each game being negative 1 with each game being a 1 run loss of course. So that's not great, but of course it's an incredibly small sample size. I would like to see the team constructed more purposefully to take advantage of this very unusual park design though assuming the wall will remain as is.

 

Perez also had one that was a homer 19/30 parks so it was a net -1 for the series fwiw, still agree with the premise but just wanted to add that lol

 

https://baseballsava...b6-d93cfcf4f145

[mweb08]

Perez also had one that was a homer 19/30 parks so it was a net -1 for the series fwiw, still agree with the premise but just wanted to add that lol

https://baseballsava...b6-d93cfcf4f145

What about Urias in game 2?

[BSLRoseKatz]

What about Urias in game 2?

 

Okay I forgot Westburg had someone on base for his so I wasn't counting that, my bad...so yeah -2 net runs was correct 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I wonder if the Os could be more active in the Japanese market under new ownership

[mikezpen]

. I would like to see the team constructed more purposefully to take advantage of this very unusual park design though assuming the wall will remain as is.

 

Don't think so. First, you play half of games on the road where RH batter-friendly venues exist. Second putting a lot of LH batters in the lineup to take advantage of the shorter RF porches in Balto. could leave them vulnerable to lefties, although they did ok this season.

[mweb08]

Don't think so. First, you play half of games on the road where RH batter-friendly venues exist. Second putting a lot of LH batters in the lineup to take advantage of the shorter RF porches in Balto. could leave them vulnerable to lefties, although they did ok this season.

The lineup is mostly fine for the wall other than Mounty imo, but the starting pitching should be more left handed if they're going to keep the wall where it is.

[BaltBird 24]

They've tried the LH starter thing. Means couldn't stay healthy. Irvin didn't work out. To be determined how Rogers plays out. Povich looked promising down the stretch.