3315 replies to this topic

[Slidemaster]

I do agree there's an element of luck involved in baseball playoffs. Who's healthy and available is a big one. Baseball players are super streaky. There are lots of seasons-within-seasons. Does anyone think Texas and Arizona were actually the two best teams last year? Does anyone actually think the Mets are better than the Phillies? Weird stuff happens every year.

[dude]

These kids are going to be good.

 

I'd like to pre-empt a future conversation. (not specifically with you)

 

I hope Jackson is great.  That would be excellent and I'm not overly concerned about his struggles at 20 in MLB (again, we should go back to the Holliday thread and the insane "April games matter" takes) and when (if, but let's say when) Jackson does good or great or has a huge hit or whatever there will be a "justification of rebuilding because of [that]" narrative.

 

The question isn't whether you can have a product of rebuilding contribute, you can and we'll likely see a fair amount of it (hopefully) in 2025.  The question is whether you can ever get enough unique production out of an early draft pick to justify throwing away a season per pick.  Literally everything else the Orioles did then, they'll continue to do now and in the future.

 

It's not just about finding a great player either.  Even if you find one, we see many teams with GREAT players that fail horribly as a team.  Just because you add good or even great players doesn't guarantee you anything because (to the Talent vs NTI) discussion, what it takes to win in MLB is way more than that.

 

The Orioles won 101 games in 2023 with no products of rebuilding.   83, 101 and 91 wins the last 3 years with almost no contributions of rebuilding....and while I'm ok with those rosters (in general) and think the Orioles should be good in 2025, there's been very little focus on creating (leveraging money and trades) a significant Major League roster. 

[makoman]

I hope Jackson is great.  That would be excellent and I'm not overly concerned about his struggles at 20 in MLB (again, we should go back to the Holliday thread and the insane "April games matter" takes) and when (if, but let's say when) Jackson does good or great or has a huge hit or whatever there will be a "justification of rebuilding because of [that]" narrative.

I'm on this board quite a lot, and Holliday, Cowser, and Kjerstad have already had some huge hits, and this has literally never happened that I'm aware of. Pretty much doubt it ever will. I think most of us want to put 2019-21 behind us and never go there again. 

[dude]

I'm on this board quite a lot, and Holliday, Cowser, and Kjerstad have already had some huge hits, and this has literally never happened that I'm aware of. Pretty much doubt it ever will. 

 

We agree that these 3 guys aren't the only players that can have huge hits, right?  Delmon Young maybe had the loudest hit in OPACY history.  

 

Tigers have had an interesting run (after being left for dead at the deadline), but their 1-1 picks (Mize and Torkleson) have largely been mid.  Of the 6 remaining teams, who is there because of rebuilding?

 

Agree is pretty unique to have all 3 guys (1-2, 1-5, 1-1) in the same lineup and that's an interesting side-note, but there are a lot of combinations of (non-rebuilding) players that could help generate the same or better outcomes in 2025+.  They are here, so let's go, but they aren't necessary.

[dude]

I think most of us want to put 2019-21 behind us and never go there again. 

 

Chris and Wile E. are good with going back.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Chris and Wile E. are good with going back.

I don't need to go back.
The Orioles built correctly.
I don't really care about that though, all that matters to me at this point is 2025.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Andy Kostka@afkostka·

 

Orioles co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller will not return in 2025, two sources confirmed.

 

Source also confirms bench coach Fredi González & coach José Hernández will also not return to Baltimore.

 

@masnRoch had this first

[Slidemaster]

I'd like to pre-empt a future conversation. (not specifically with you)

I hope Jackson is great. That would be excellent and I'm not overly concerned about his struggles at 20 in MLB (again, we should go back to the Holliday thread and the insane "April games matter" takes) and when (if, but let's say when) Jackson does good or great or has a huge hit or whatever there will be a "justification of rebuilding because of [that]" narrative.

The question isn't whether you can have a product of rebuilding contribute, you can and we'll likely see a fair amount of it (hopefully) in 2025. The question is whether you can ever get enough unique production out of an early draft pick to justify throwing away a season per pick. Literally everything else the Orioles did then, they'll continue to do now and in the future.

It's not just about finding a great player either. Even if you find one, we see many teams with GREAT players that fail horribly as a team. Just because you add good or even great players doesn't guarantee you anything because (to the Talent vs NTI) discussion, what it takes to win in MLB is way more than that.

The Orioles won 101 games in 2023 with no products of rebuilding. 83, 101 and 91 wins the last 3 years with almost no contributions of rebuilding....and while I'm ok with those rosters (in general) and think the Orioles should be good in 2025, there's been very little focus on creating (leveraging money and trades) a significant Major League roster.

Regardless of how we got them, they're here now. I'm far less interested in conversations of whether we "should have," and far more interested in conversations about what to do now, after we did.

[dude]

Regardless of how we got them, they're here now. I'm far less interested in conversations of whether we "should have," and far more interested in conversations about what to do now, after we did.

 

Sure, until you're in a situation in the future where people want to argue to do it again.  Why can't we understand today that the answer is "never do stupid rebuilding BS again".  It's a stupid myth that the baseball national, local pundit community and the fan community at large has bought into and it's stupid and we should reject all things stupid.

 

There are still zero examples of it's merit, but people still talk about it as a thing.  It's designed to defer accountability for winning for both ownership and the FO.  That's it.  Nobody should buy it.

[BaltBird 24]

Andy Kostka@afkostka·










Orioles co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller will not return in 2025, two sources confirmed.

Source also confirms bench coach Fredi González & coach José Hernández will also not return to Baltimore.

@masnRoch had this first

Yet, they're keeping Hyde.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Yet, they're keeping Hyde.

Somebody had to go. Should have been him and Hyde but whatever.

[makoman]

I wonder how they decided to keep one hitting coach and not the other.

[Mackus]

I wonder how they decided to keep one hitting coach and not the other.

 

Two men enter.  One man leave.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

I wonder how they decided to keep one hitting coach and not the other.

Could be differing approaches?

[BaltBird 24]

Would've kept Fredi Gonzalez and Hernandez over Hyde, though I don't know what Hernandez role even was.

I wonder if there was some internal rift between Hyde and the other two?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Andy Kostka@afkostka·










Orioles co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller will not return in 2025, two sources confirmed.

Source also confirms bench coach Fredi González & coach José Hernández will also not return to Baltimore.

@masnRoch had this first

Smart. Get rid of the guy who showed any damn fire on the whole club. Disasterous start to the offseason for Elias. He has no clue whats wrong

[NewMarketSean]

Andy Kostka@afkostka·

 

Orioles co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller will not return in 2025, two sources confirmed.

 

Source also confirms bench coach Fredi González & coach José Hernández will also not return to Baltimore.

 

@masnRoch had this first

 

Move that needed to happen. Not sure why Fredi is gone. Maybe there are factors that we're not privy to.

[Mackus]

I have absolutely no idea what any of the coaches do and neither does anyone else. I think we've got some issues and new voices could help, but aside from wanting change all the way from top down, I don't even have guesses as to who should stay or go.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

I have absolutely no idea what any of the coaches do and neither does anyone else. I think we've got some issues and new voices could help, but aside from wanting change all the way from top down, I don't even have guesses as to who should stay or go.

So we need new voices.

Some of us thought so even before the ASB.

ZERO changes were made during the season.,

That falls on Elias and Hyde.

[makoman]

Who should have been fired before the all star break?