158 replies to this topic

[russsnyder]

I wouldn't have done that. You need your closer with a guy on 2nd.

I lean with bringing Cano back for the ninth.

However, I must say that I can't stand the ghost runner rule. That was a great ball game that was tainted with that garbage.

Lastly, If it's such a great rule, why is it tossed out during the World Series?

[TwentyThirtyFive]

There may have been a shot.

I honestly think he was completely lost in the play. Probably kicking himself after the boot.

On the flip side, he may have throw it away if he tried to throw out the runner. He seemed beaten.

Hard to know where the runner was but its possible he just froze and was afraid to fire and throw it away. I still have high hopes for the kid but hes thinking on the field way too much. When your brain gets in the way usually good things dont happen

[russsnyder]

Hard to know where the runner was but its possible he just froze and was afraid to fire and throw it away. I still have high hopes for the kid but hes thinking on the field way too much. When your brain gets in the way usually good things dont happen

Good points

His instincts may have been not to make a bad situation worse.

I think He'll be fine overall, however, he seems to be moping a bit.

Use this as an opportunity to get his head clear with some time off.

[85Knight]

I've been saying that if Westburg and Urias were healthy Holliday should be on the bench. They need to really consider that if they come back before the playoffs. The game is just too fast for him right now.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Hes at least twice forgot how many outs there were in a game. Im not worried that much about the bat but the lack of fundamentals and instincts he has shown for being around MLB his whole life is surprising

[TwentyThirtyFive]

As long as Soto brings a glove he cant be worse

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Like Rivera has admirably stepped in at 3b after the Westy and Urias injuries. Why is it impossible for Soto to do the same for a week or two

[mweb08]

It's too bad a guy named Norby hasn't been playing second.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The spot was always going to be Jaksons first. So Norby was option 2 short term. He still would be option #2 longterm. But now the guy who was talking about the need to trade off our excess prospects, which we did, is complaining about our depth and why the depth isnt here. Im the one who always said opportunity will dictate PT and you dont trade just to trade.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

The truth is we all know Mateo's flaws but his loss has been bigger than Ive heard anyone acknowledge. He was playing a really good 2b defensively and he was doing enough with the bat. When he got on base he was dynamic. I sense he was a good clubhouse guy too

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Also agree we need to get Kjersted back up here. Dont know that I expect much but Maton is doing nothing anyway

[mweb08]

The spot was always going to be Jaksons first. So Norby was option 2 short term. He still would be option #2 longterm. But now the guy who was talking about the need to trade off our excess prospects, which we did, is complaining about our depth and why the depth isnt here. Im the one who always said opportunity will dictate PT and you dont trade just to trade.

 

Actually you're talking about the person who took a lot of heat on here for saying that Holliday shouldn't start with the big league team this year and should earn the spot while giving a player like Ortiz or Norby that chance beforehand (and believing in the vets more too). 

 

You're also talking about someone who advocated giving Norby more of a chance during this year before they called Jackson back up.

 

And you're talking about someone who has absolutely never suggested that the team should trade just to trade. That was an idiotic and insulting strawman that quite frankly people should be embarrassed for suggesting. 

 

But sure, I did want to trade from the depth to improve the organization because the major league ready or just about talent was so abundant in the infield specifically. As for who to trade, well I figured the great drafting, developing, and talent evaluating GM could figure that out to our satisfaction.

 

Keeping them all didn't make sense though. Part of that was because we actually did have good vet depth with Urias and Mateo despite what some here thought. Another part of it was that the organization could have a Norby ready to play yet choose not to give him a legit chance anyway because others are ahead of him in the pecking order and/or because there wasn't going to be any patience with the lesser prospect if he struggles out of the gate. Plus, you don't want to diminish players value by having them stall out in the upper minors.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Whether you advocated for Norby before Holliday is irrelevant to reality. If you said that, then you can pat yourself on the back, but the org clearly wanted to push Jackson at 2b. He was ahead on the depth chart and was going to get the first shot. It was also going to take an injury to Mateo to get a chance. He was pretty far down the pecking order. So much so that he was started to get most of his AAA reps in LF.


As far as trading Norby when I say trade him to trade him Im not implying you trade him for a bag of balls. The problem Ive always said to anyone whos been in the trade him camp is that trades where both sides feel they get fair value arent as easy to match up on as fans think. We can pan the Norby trade all we want and most of you did at the time. Its been bad no doubt. But at least the trade was made for someone who Elias expected to help this team this year and in the future. Trading for a lower level prospect made no sense to me with where we are now and what our needs were at the break. I think Norby was traded in a deal at the right time and for the right type of player. Now, those that say the player was the wrong player thats fine. You are def right that it was the wrong player for '24.



For what its worth, I think it should also be noted that Norby didnt play well in his very SSS of 9 games in Baltimore. He could be doing the same thing here as Miami but the situations are different

[mweb08]

Oh so nowhere in there was a oh my bad, what I just said was actually an unfair mischaracterization of your stance. Got it lol.

[mweb08]

I would have been happy to trade Norby in a deal for Flaherty, a guy that a fair amount of people were between skeptical and out on due to how he pitched here last year. I wasn't into dealing him plus more for Rogers. So you know, not just trying to trade him to trade him. 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

I dont think youre stupid so why do you get hung up on the trading him to trade him thing. Ive always known you meant a realistic trade from a value standpoint. When I say a "trade just to trade" I mean one that doesnt make sense in ways other than solely being fair value. An example being a low level prospect with a high upside.

[mweb08]

I dont think youre stupid so why do you get hung up on the trading him to trade him thing. Ive always known you meant a realistic trade from a value standpoint. When I say a "trade just to trade" I mean one that doesnt make sense in ways other than solely being fair value. An example being a low level prospect with a high upside.

 

It's an absurd way of saying something. That's not the only problem as I laid out. Your post about my position was simply not a fair characterization as explained. I wanted depth and plenty of it, including the two vets that a lot of people were ready to move on from at least one of. The problem has obviously been excessive injuries (you're right about Mateo) and Holliday has been incredibly disappointing to date (as has Mayo in a much smaller sample).

[cprenegade]

I lean with bringing Cano back for the ninth.

However, I must say that I can't stand the ghost runner rule. That was a great ball game that was tainted with that garbage.

Lastly, If it's such a great rule, why is it tossed out during the World Series?

 

Thank You.  I am 100% in agreement with you.  It is the dumbest rule ever put into sports.  A tee ball rule in a professional sport, imo.  

 

I know it was put in to reduce the chances of long extra inning games, but really how many games actually went longer than 12 innings before the rule was put into place?  I read something a few years ago that around 10% of MLB games actually go to extra innings, and of that 10%, only around 15% go past 12 innings.  That's less than 3 games per team per year.  I don't see the need to compromise the integrity of the game for that few games. 

 

I get the argument on the other side.  It saves bullpens from being exhausted for a week when one of those games happens and it shortens games for the fans.  I'm just not in agreement with it.  Teams dealt with those rare long extra inning games for decades.   This was a covid era rule that should have been left behind with wearing masks at ballparks, imo.  

[NewMarketSean]

Honestly, I’m close to giving up. These last three months have been abysmal

 

I can't think of a worse season where the O's will finish with a winning record. I thought the 2016 team was a boring, not very good team but this one takes the cake.

[BaltBird 24]

2016 at least had a dominant bullpen and a team that could mash (better than this one). The starting pitching was still horrendous, though.