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Ravens.com: Five Reasons Why Ravens Will Be in Super Bowl Next Year


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#61 makoman

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 12:20 PM

So you think it's more likely that two OCs in a row with elite rushing attacks chose to abandon them in the playoffs, rather than Lamar calling his own plays (or at least having great influence over them) and trying to play superhero with his arm?

I never got the impression that Lamar had any input into play calling under Roman. This year, sure, he seems to have had a good deal of input, but I don't think he was routinely calling the plays and never heard or read anything suggesting that, so I don't know why that would be likely.

 

In any event, if the QB is calling the plays, and the coaches don't agree with what's happening, then they can and should take back the play calling responsibility. If Lamar was calling plays the staff tacitly agreed with his the play calling or they'd have put a stop to it. More likely IMO it was just the normal situation where the OC was calling the plays.


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#62 Slidemaster

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 12:30 PM

I never got the impression that Lamar had any input into play calling under Roman. This year, sure, he seems to have had a good deal of input, but I don't think he was routinely calling the plays and never heard or read anything suggesting that, so I don't know why that would be likely.

In any event, if the QB is calling the plays, and the coaches don't agree with what's happening, then they can and should take back the play calling responsibility. If Lamar was calling plays the staff tacitly agreed with his the play calling or they'd have put a stop to it. More likely IMO it was just the normal situation where the OC was calling the plays.


Maybe you're right, but it seems incredibly odd that two OCs who run entirely different systems would be incompetent in the exact same way in the exact same situation.

#63 bmore_ken

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 03:27 PM

I never got the impression that Lamar had any input into play calling under Roman. This year, sure, he seems to have had a good deal of input, but I don't think he was routinely calling the plays and never heard or read anything suggesting that, so I don't know why that would be likely.

 

In any event, if the QB is calling the plays, and the coaches don't agree with what's happening, then they can and should take back the play calling responsibility. If Lamar was calling plays the staff tacitly agreed with his the play calling or they'd have put a stop to it. More likely IMO it was just the normal situation where the OC was calling the plays.

Exactly. if Lamar is calling the plays, why do we need an OC? I suppose it was Lamar that decided to only give the RBs 6 carries. Slide is insane. 



#64 bmore_ken

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 03:29 PM

So you think it's more likely that two OCs in a row with elite rushing attacks chose to abandon them in the playoffs, rather than Lamar calling his own plays (or at least having great influence over them) and trying to play superhero with his arm?

What proof do you have that Lamar calls his own plays? I'm pretty sure I've seen Monken calling the plays. 



#65 bmore_ken

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 03:29 PM

Maybe you're right, but it seems incredibly odd that two OCs who run entirely different systems would be incompetent in the exact same way in the exact same situation.

But that's exactly what happened.



#66 Slidemaster

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 03:32 PM

What proof do you have that Lamar calls his own plays? I'm pretty sure I've seen Monken calling the plays.


Every team has an OC. It doesn't mean Lamar isn't given input.

#67 makoman

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 03:37 PM

Every team has an OC. It doesn't mean Lamar isn't given input.

QBs just don't call plays these days. If he was everyone would be talking about it, especially with how well they did in the regular season. Input is a different story, but that doesn't really mean anything as to what we're talking about.

 

Now I don't doubt he has the authority to change plays at the line (an authority that, again, I am not sure he had under Roman, and he didn't have time to do so anyway with the way we managed the play clock). But again I come back to--if he was changing all their runs to passes against Monken's wishes, I have to believe Monken is gonna be like "Hey, quit doing that, we need to run some."



#68 bmore_ken

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 04:12 PM

QBs just don't call plays these days. If he was everyone would be talking about it, especially with how well they did in the regular season. Input is a different story, but that doesn't really mean anything as to what we're talking about.

 

Now I don't doubt he has the authority to change plays at the line (an authority that, again, I am not sure he had under Roman, and he didn't have time to do so anyway with the way we managed the play clock). But again I come back to--if he was changing all their runs to passes against Monken's wishes, I have to believe Monken is gonna be like "Hey, quit doing that, we need to run some."

Exactly. 



#69 Slidemaster

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 08:50 PM

QBs just don't call plays these days. If he was everyone would be talking about it, especially with how well they did in the regular season. Input is a different story, but that doesn't really mean anything as to what we're talking about.

Now I don't doubt he has the authority to change plays at the line (an authority that, again, I am not sure he had under Roman, and he didn't have time to do so anyway with the way we managed the play clock). But again I come back to--if he was changing all their runs to passes against Monken's wishes, I have to believe Monken is gonna be like "Hey, quit doing that, we need to run some."

Maybe. I think it's equally likely that an OC in his first year, coaching a two-time MVP quarterback and the most popular and influential player in the locker room might give him what he wants, or at least allow his input to influence what plays he chooses to call.

However, regardless of which is closer to the truth, the fact of the matter is that Lamar still played poorly, no matter what plays were called. He played poorly the entire game. Why some people are so insistent that it was someone else's fault is beyond me. Lamar himself would tell you it was his fault.

#70 jamesdean

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 08:14 AM

Maybe. I think it's equally likely that an OC in his first year, coaching a two-time MVP quarterback and the most popular and influential player in the locker room might give him what he wants, or at least allow his input to influence what plays he chooses to call.

However, regardless of which is closer to the truth, the fact of the matter is that Lamar still played poorly, no matter what place we're called. He played poorly the entire game. Why some people are so insistent that it was someone else's fault is beyond me. Lamar himself would tell you it was his fault.

I agree that Lamar has certainly had better days throwing the ball.  His accuracy left a lot to be desired.  That said, Monken did him no favors with that game plan, especially against a very good pass defense. It was the perfect gift to hand KC, wrapped in pretty paper with a bow.  It was inexcusable and frankly, put too much on Lamar's plate in the most important game of the year.  Maybe one day, when we least expect it, an OC will put together a game plan that utilizes the strength of his offense when it matters most.  


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#71 Mackus

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 09:44 AM

Lamar wasn't playing great like he often does, but the pick to Likely is the play that tips the scales from ok to bad performance. If Zay doesn't fumble and that's a TD, then perhaps Lamar doesn't feel as desperate and holds onto that throw to Likely. That small change would have made Lamar's performance be viewed very differently. But you can't erase the pick, and it was a brutal one, so fair to grade the overall game harshly. Just pointing out how a drastically things could've gone differently if not for one thing that was totally outside Lamar's control.

#72 NewMarketSean

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 09:47 AM

The INT to Likely should have been a flag. He was tackled before the ball arrived. Not saying he would have caught it, but he didn't even have a chance to defend the pass from being an INT. And Likely had made amazing catches in double coverage before...that Jacksonville play comes to mind.

 

I'm not saying the refs cost us this game, our own performance did enough that, but the non-calls didn't help either.


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#73 Mackus

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 09:48 AM


The INT to Likely should have been a flag. He was tackled before the ball arrived.


Meh, the noncall doesn't bother me. Likely had zero chance of catching it. Also that doesn't change the decision by Lamar, though certainly would change the outcome.

#74 NewMarketSean

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 09:49 AM

Meh, the noncall doesn't bother me. Likely had zero chance of catching it. Also that doesn't change the decision by Lamar, though certainly would change the outcome.

 

Forget about catching it, he didn't have a chance to bat it away. And Likely had made awesome catches in coverage before.

 

I know there are conspiracies out there about the Chiefs, and I don't buy into them, but the non-calls against KC in our game and in the SB are suspicious. They were most flagged OL during season, and they didn't receive a holding call in any of their SB wins.


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