51 replies to this topic

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Significantly better chance that neither McKenna or Hilliard make the opening day roster than both of them do.

Which of the fringy position players have options? Obv all the really young guys have options. Do any of Hilliard, McKenna, Mateo, Urias have options?? Im assuming no.

[BobPhelan]

Which of the fringy position players have options? Obv all the really young guys have options. Do any of Hilliard, McKenna, Mateo, Urias have options?? Im assuming no.

Nope, none of them.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Based on an outfield of Hays, Mullins, Santander, Mountcastle and O’Hearn at 1B and some DH, and Adley probably getting 40+ starts at DH, where do you see these full time at bats coming from?

Lets just use Cowser for this exercise.

He can play 3 times a week starting in the OF. Easily IMO since I don't think Mullins or Hays should be an everyday fixture in the lineup anyway. Less playing time to keep them fresher and hopefully healthy.

He can DH once a week.

Now if 4 starts a week plus any PH/late inning play isn't enough then we can just disagree on how much he needs to be playing and whether this is better for his development than playing everyday in AAA.

 

Mountcastle gets zero starts against RH pitching. O'Hearn and Santander can share the other starts plus DH.

Adley is not going to DH every day off behind the plate anyway. He'll get plenty of at bats.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Mountcastle gets zero starts against RH pitching. 

 

This is completely unrealistic, and also a terrible allocation of resources.  If you don't plan to play Mountcastle against like 70% of starting pitchers, then you're better off trading him for 50 cents on the dollar tomorrow.

[Mackus]

Mountcastle gets zero starts against RH pitching. O'Hearn and Santander can share the other starts plus DH.

If this was the plan, they'd have traded him. No chance he's the short half of a platoon, IMO.

[RichardZ]

Lets just use Cowser for this exercise.
He can play 3 times a week starting in the OF. Easily IMO since I don't think Mullins or Hays should be an everyday fixture in the lineup anyway. Less playing time to keep them fresher and hopefully healthy.
He can DH once a week.
Now if 4 starts a week plus any PH/late inning play isn't enough then we can just disagree on how much he needs to be playing and whether this is better for his development than playing everyday in AAA.
 
Mountcastle gets zero starts against RH pitching. O'Hearn and Santander can share the other starts plus DH.
Adley is not going to DH every day off behind the plate anyway. He'll get plenty of at bats.

Ok. I don’t think it plays out that way but I’ll buy the Cowser scenario. I think you’re dreaming if you think Mountcastle gets zero starts against RH pitching to start the season. Sure, they platooned him when he struggled in the first half. Then he started hitting in July and played virtually every single game in August. Mountcastle starts the year as the everyday 1B. He’ll have to play himself into a platoon, which I don’t think will happen like it did last year but we’ll see.

[dude]

Lets just use Cowser for this exercise.

 

For the life of me, I never understand the want to put every tool in the same bag.

 

Kind of the point of this thread is that without moves, the prospects don't fit.  They shouldn't be role players.  There's a cost (at a number of levels).

 

If the Orioles want to get the prospects into the ML lineup, they need to make room.  It shouldn't be a big deal. 

 

Make choices.  You are allowed to manage the roster.  You are allowed to "subtract" in a season you're trying to win.  It's just about the endstate of the Team you want to compete with.  Everyone can't play for the Orioles.  Contracts have to be in MLB unless you want to try and pass them through waivers and pay them at AAA.  You can't send a guy with no options to the minors without potential other consequences.

 

I'm not even saying they won't make some choices...maybe they will...but they have to subtract somewhere to free up space for any of the top prospects. 

[BSLSteveBirrer]

For the life of me, I never understand the want to put every tool in the same bag.

 

Kind of the point of this thread is that without moves, the prospects don't fit.  They shouldn't be role players.  There's a cost (at a number of levels).

 

If the Orioles want to get the prospects into the ML lineup, they need to make room.  It shouldn't be a big deal. 

 

Make choices.  You are allowed to manage the roster.  You are allowed to "subtract" in a season you're trying to win.  It's just about the endstate of the Team you want to compete with.  Everyone can't play for the Orioles.  Contracts have to be in MLB unless you want to try and pass them through waivers and pay them at AAA.  You can't send a guy with no options to the minors without potential other consequences.

 

I'm not even saying they won't make some choices...maybe they will...but they have to subtract somewhere to free up space for any of the top prospects. 

I ve have argued for months that they need to do a number of things with the roster. Its just silly to me that you would have these guys ALL down in the minors.

Cowser

Kjerstad

Stowers

Mayo

and maybe even Holliday.

 

And for the record of course Mounty is not sitting against all RH starters. But I still think there are enough at bats to have one of Cowser or Kjerstad on the OD roster.

[BSLSteveBirrer]

Here's a question that I don't really know even a decent answer to.

 

All the roster questions kind of mold around the "he has to play everyday" thinking. I fully get that for a developing player. But lets take Cowser and Kjerstad specifically. 

 

Its fine to say they need to play everyday but is that really true? At what point has a player done all they can do in AAA that continuing to play there everyday isn't as valuable as being on the ML roster where they aren't playing everyday. How much time do they need to be getting on the big club to where that is as good or more valuable than playing everyday at a level where they have done all they can. I get the staying sharp aspect. But the flip side is that most guys take some time to get into the swing of things in the majors. So at some point isn't it better to start that phase of learning vs playing everyday for sharpness sakes?

[Mackus]

Good question.

 

I think Cowser would be better served in a part-time MLB role (not straight bench, but well less than everyday) than everyday in AAA.

 

I think Kjerstad would benefit more from everyday time AAA.  He's still only a year back into playing regularly, so want to keep him doing that even if it's not in Baltimore.

 

I think individual personality also plays a big part of this, so the coaches have to know if a guy will be able to take advantage of the non-playing aspects of being on the MLB roster and make improvements through side work even if not playing as much as they'd like or if they'll sulk and spiral.  Same mindset applies to sending someone down when they are scuffling.  Some guys can handle the struggles and power through, other times its good to get a reset.  Impossible for us to say which guys would fall into which category.  Certainly there is less room to cater to what's best for the individual player when you're actually competing for the division as the Orioles will be in 2024.  Current production is important enough that you may not be able to ride out struggles even if you think that'd be the best route for the player.

[Mike B]

This is a version of the Baseline roster thread, but intended more - at this point - for discussion.

 

If we don't know something we don't know yet...like someone is missing the season or hurt in a way that changes this, ok, but for everything we know right now, the opening day roster will be a function of MLB Rules and MLB contracts.  If the Orioles are using some of these contracts to get a guy through waivers to AAA for depth, ok, but AAA is pretty full too.

 

Lineup

CF Mullins

C  Rutschman 

3B Henderson 

1B Mountcastle 

RF Santander 

LF Hays 

DH O'Hearn 

2B Westburg

SS Mateo 

 

Bench

C  McCann 

IF Urias 

OF Hilliard 

OF McKenna 

 

Starters

1. Burnes 

2. Means

3. GRod

4. Bradish

5. Kremer

 

Bullpen

RH  Kimbrel

RH  Cano 

RH  Baumann 

RH  Tate 

RH  TWells 

LH  Irvin

LH  Coulombe 

LH  Perez 

 

Bullpen here doesn't include Akin, Zimmerrmann, Davidson, Webb, Baker, Heasley.  Not clear on the option status of all of them, varies depending on the source. You can probably pass a guy like Zimmermann through waivers, but not some of them.

 

A guy like Hilliard would have a pretty limited role in terms of expected ABs.  He's a LHed bat off the bench could obviously see some corner OF, 1B, DH, but it's not some full-platoon role of something like that.  Replacing him with Cowser or Kjerstad wouldn't seem to change that.  I can't see a Hays/Cowser platoon or something like that.  That would seem to push all of the younger options to AAA.

 

People talk about a "RHed bat"....instead of who?  Mckenna? We already are pretty heavy in terms of RHed bats, including the guys that hope to break into the lineup (Mayo, Norby).  Mateo and Urias don't have options (not that it would even be a thing to do it).  Guys like Mountcastle and O'Hearn do have options....would they really send them down for OD?

 

Barring injury, the rotation seems pretty set.  The bullpen is too.  "add another RP" kicks someone out but I don't know who gives you better cost/performance risk over a guy like Baumann.

 

That pushes all of the prospects to AAA.

 

1B/3B Mayo

2B Norby

SS Holliday

CF Cowser

RF Kjerstad

LF Stowers

 

Not to turn this into another Holliday thread (but it certainly applies) but the other 5 guys there all have more and better AAA performance than Jackson heading into the season.  

 

All of them should be getting everyday ABs at AAA versus some limited bench role (Hilliard) in Baltimore.

 

Personally, I'm ok going into the season like that.  My preference is we open up opportunity for guys like Kjerstad (vs Santander) and Mayo (versus Mountcastle) to compete for RoY this year. 

 

Everyone doesn't fit.

I think Kjerstad and or Cowser make the roster.

[Nigel Tufnel]

You'd think the the O's would want a right-handed hitter who can play CF to spell Mullins.  Any internal options other than McKenna or (all-star caliber CFer) Hays?