1227 replies to this topic

[Biggsy]

Some people wont watch. Some will bury their head and not listen and just say 6 RB carries!!!!! OMG. 6 RB carries!!!! OMG. Its such a weak uninformed take. If you want to break down the damn play by plays and what KC was doing vs us and debate thats one thing. But someone just saying 6 RB carries shouldn't be taken seriously

The 6 carry stuff holds no water, simply because the Ravens offense moved the ball the whole 2nd half. They got to the 2 inch line, the 20 and the 25 on 3 different drives. They walked away with a lost fumble, an INT and one FG on those drives. That's it right there. That's why they lost. Not because they only ran 6 plays to our 5th and 6th best offensive options. But because of two turnovers.

Gus Edwards and Justice Hill not getting their touched didn't lose this one.

[Mackus]

The 6 carry stuff holds no water, simply because the Ravens offense moved the ball the whole 2nd half. They got to the 2 inch line, the 20 and the 25 on 3 different drives. They walked away with a lost fumble, an INT and one FG on those drives. That's it right there. That's why they lost. Not because they only ran 6 plays to our 5th and 6th best offensive options. But because of two turnovers.

Gus Edwards and Justice Hill not getting their touched didn't lose this one.

 

It holds a little water, particularly for the first half where the offense mostly stunk.  But agree it's overly simplistic.  

[jamesdean]

The 6 carry stuff holds no water, simply because the Ravens offense moved the ball the whole 2nd half. They got to the 2 inch line, the 20 and the 25 on 3 different drives. They walked away with a lost fumble, an INT and one FG on those drives. That's it right there. That's why they lost. Not because they only ran 6 plays to our 5th and 6th best offensive options. But because of two turnovers.

Gus Edwards and Justice Hill not getting their touched didn't lose this one.

Maybe if they had been concentrating on establishing a running attack like they had done for umpteen weeks with success, those turnovers don't happen.  Maybe if they had utilized their whole offense instead of being so narrow minded, they would have had the usual Ravens rhythm and production.  Sorry, it was an idiotic game plan and it cost them the Super Bowl.  

[NewMarketSean]

It was a bad gameplan to go into that game and expect Lamar to beat Mahomes in a passing shootout.

 

Lamar needs confusion and misdirection to succeed. Our offense works best with sustained drives and controlling the TOP. We turned Lamar into Andy Dalton. And not Cincy Dalton, more like Chicago Dalton.

[russsnyder]

It was a bad gameplan to go into that game and expect Lamar to beat Mahomes in a passing shootout.

Lamar needs confusion and misdirection to succeed. Our offense works best with sustained drives and controlling the TOP. We turned Lamar into Andy Dalton. And not Cincy Dalton, more like Chicago Dalton.

I think they turned him into Dalton from " Road House".

[NewMarketSean]

Last post about this game and I'm done with it. Put it in a drawer, hopefully never to be opened again.

 

They choked. They're chokers. The players choked. The coaches choked. Until they can get into the SB and win it, they'll be labeled as chokers and rightfully so.

 

Peace.

[Slidemaster]

Last post about this game and I'm done with it. Put it in a drawer, hopefully never to be opened again.

They choked. They're chokers. The players choked. The coaches choked. Until they can get into the SB and win it, they'll be labeled as chokers and rightfully so.

Peace.

Can't argue with that. You are what you repeatedly do.

[jamesdean]

I think they turned him into Dalton from " Road House".

Good one. (LOL)

[Biggsy]

Maybe if they had been concentrating on establishing a running attack like they had done for umpteen weeks with success, those turnovers don't happen. Maybe if they had utilized their whole offense instead of being so narrow minded, they would have had the usual Ravens rhythm and production. Sorry, it was an idiotic game plan and it cost them the Super Bowl.

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I'll agree that the gameplan was dumb. No argument from me there. However, I really don't believe 10+ more touches from Edwards or Hill changes the outcome.

The Flowers fumble is a TD 99/100 times.

I also love that the assumption is that 2 very average RB's would have lit it up for the Ravens. That 10-15 more carries between the two would have 100% resulted in 100+ yards. Look at the defense, they loaded up to stop the run. You can't just say that more carries would have definitely been successful. And the 2nd half, the offense moved the ball. It's not like they went 3 and out and struggled to move it all game.

[jamesdean]

.
I'll agree that the gameplan was dumb. No argument from me there. However, I really don't believe 10+ more touches from Edwards or Hill changes the outcome.
The Flowers fumble is a TD 99/100 times.
I also love that the assumption is that 2 very average RB's would have lit it up for the Ravens. That 10-15 more carries between the two would have 100% resulted in 100+ yards. Look at the defense, they loaded up to stop the run. You can't just say that more carries would have definitely been successful. And the 2nd half, the offense moved the ball. It's not like they went 3 and out and struggled to move it all game.

I think Edwards and Hill are better than average. Its not like they had the 2021 retreads out there. Plus, Lamar, who led the team in rushing was very hesitant to take off, move the chains and keep drives going. Even if Flowers doesn't fumble, they still only have 14 points. They averaged close to 30. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

[Mackus]

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I'll agree that the gameplan was dumb. No argument from me there. However, I really don't believe 10+ more touches from Edwards or Hill changes the outcome.

The Flowers fumble is a TD 99/100 times.

I also love that the assumption is that 2 very average RB's would have lit it up for the Ravens. That 10-15 more carries between the two would have 100% resulted in 100+ yards. Look at the defense, they loaded up to stop the run. You can't just say that more carries would have definitely been successful. And the 2nd half, the offense moved the ball. It's not like they went 3 and out and struggled to move it all game.

 

Agree 100% on second half.  Think there was a way to get the run game going in the first half that could've changed the course of the game, though, and maybe not led to the team being down 10 at the half.

 

Final drive of the half - just inside 3 minutes starting at the 41 with 3 timeouts - is one place I think we could've ran a bit to further that drive.  Maybe we only get a FG, but that's still a 6-point swing instead of allowing KC a FG before the half.  Drive prior is another place that rushing may have helped.  After the self-pass for a 1st, they got stuffed on and end around then two incompletes and punted.

 

I do think all the "6 carries" folks need to go look at the play-by-play and show us where we should've ran instead of passed.  Otherwise they're just yelling at clouds.  I think there are some places to point fingers in the first half.  In the second half, there are way fewer.  

[Biggsy]

Agree 100% on second half. Think there was a way to get the run game going in the first half that could've changed the course of the game, though, and maybe not led to the team being down 10 at the half.

Final drive of the half - just inside 3 minutes starting at the 41 with 3 timeouts - is one place I think we could've ran a bit to further that drive. Maybe we only get a FG, but that's still a 6-point swing instead of allowing KC a FG before the half. Drive prior is another place that rushing may have helped. After the self-pass for a 1st, they got stuffed on and end around then two incompletes and punted.

I do think all the "6 carries" folks need to go look at the play-by-play and show us where we should've ran instead of passed. Otherwise they're just yelling at clouds. I think there are some places to point fingers in the first half. In the second half, there are way fewer.

I agree with all of that. And that's where I agree that it was a bad gameplan. The 2nd half was a different story. I'll never understand what Lamar saw on that interception. It was never there. Not even close. He had to have come out of the huddle and decided that was the throw no matter what. Because at no point was there any hole or opening for that pass.

[Mackus]

Those 6 RB runs were pretty bad, though.  Not give-it-up-and-don't-try-anymore bad, IMO, but bad.  I'd have liked to see more Gus than Hill, I think.

 

1 yard, 0 yards, 15 yards, 2 yards, 1 yard, 4 yards

[mdrunning]

I agree with all of that. And that's where I agree that it was a bad gameplan. The 2nd half was a different story. I'll never understand what Lamar saw on that interception. It was never there. Not even close. He had to have come out of the huddle and decided that was the throw no matter what. Because at no point was there any hole or opening for that pass.

If Lamar had thrown to Likely sooner, maybe the Ravens score on that play, but I think the initial target was Bateman. When that wasn't there, he went back to Likely and by that time the safeties had converged. Never throw to the middle of the field late because bad things usually happen.

[Mike in STL]

Those 6 RB runs were pretty bad, though.  Not give-it-up-and-don't-try-anymore bad, IMO, but bad.  I'd have liked to see more Gus than Hill, I think.

 

1 yard, 0 yards, 15 yards, 2 yards, 1 yard, 4 yards

The 3rd and 1 that led to the 4th and 1 Lamar run for 21 should have been Gus. That's picking nits though. You hope any RB can get 1 yard.

 

I would have liked to see more Gus and less Flowers end around. I just hate those plays in general. 

[Biggsy]

I think Edwards and Hill are better than average. Its not like they had the 2021 retreads out there. Plus, Lamar, who led the team in rushing was very hesitant to take off, move the chains and keep drives going. Even if Flowers doesn't fumble, they still only have 14 points. They averaged close to 30. I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.

I have always really liked Edwards. But he averaged 4.1 YPC this season. Hill 4.6 on limited touches. Hill offers some big play ability. But if you take the purple glasses off, Edwards and Hill are JAG's. Very average when looking across the RB rooms in the NFL. They aren't difference makers. Point blank. If we were complaining about a legit top 5 or top 10 RB only getting 6 carries, I'd be on board. But Edwards and Hill aren't those type of players.

Big reason why I feel like EDC needs to focus heavily in the RB room this offseason. Bring in multiple high potential guys. Dobbins durability has absolutely destroyed this teams total potential. I really feel like if Mitchell is there and healthy against KC, he gets a lot more work than Edwards and Hill got. Maybe it makes a difference in the first half.

[mdrunning]

Those 6 RB runs were pretty bad, though.  Not give-it-up-and-don't-try-anymore bad, IMO, but bad.  I'd have liked to see more Gus than Hill, I think.

 

1 yard, 0 yards, 15 yards, 2 yards, 1 yard, 4 yards

I think the biggest problem was the Ravens were trying to run wide, and the Chiefs are very good at pursuit. And neither Edwards nor Hill have the speed to get to the edge. They even tried a jet sweep with Flowers and I think that only resulted in a three- or four-yard gain. Other than Lamar's 21-yarder on fourth down, the Ravens' backs had success when they ran between the tackles--I think Edwards' 15-yarder was a result of such. 

 

As I said in another post, I don't know the particulars of the Chiefs-Bills game, but I'm guessing much of Buffalo's success on the ground was accomplished with off-tackle runs and not trying to run wide outside of the tackles.

[ivanbalt]

Agree 100% on second half.  Think there was a way to get the run game going in the first half that could've changed the course of the game, though, and maybe not led to the team being down 10 at the half.

 

Final drive of the half - just inside 3 minutes starting at the 41 with 3 timeouts - is one place I think we could've ran a bit to further that drive.  Maybe we only get a FG, but that's still a 6-point swing instead of allowing KC a FG before the half.  Drive prior is another place that rushing may have helped.  After the self-pass for a 1st, they got stuffed on and end around then two incompletes and punted.

 

I do think all the "6 carries" folks need to go look at the play-by-play and show us where we should've ran instead of passed.  Otherwise they're just yelling at clouds.  I think there are some places to point fingers in the first half.  In the second half, there are way fewer.  

Looking at what already happened and trying to shoehorn in runs doesn't really work because a different game plan changes everything whether it's better or worse.  Although they moved the ball, the offense never really looked comfortable.

 

If they fully committed to running the ball, there's still only three options:

 

It fails miserably and they lose.

It works well, the offense gets in a rhythm but they still lose.

It works well, the offense gets in a rhythm and they win.

 

The point us "6 carries" folks are making is that Ravens offense is most successful when there's a good mix of run (not just from the QB) and pass and both feed off each other.  Abandoning what made you successful doesn't always work and it didn't here.

[hallas]

I have always really liked Edwards. But he averaged 4.1 YPC this season. Hill 4.6 on limited touches. Hill offers some big play ability. But if you take the purple glasses off, Edwards and Hill are JAG's. Very average when looking across the RB rooms in the NFL. They aren't difference makers. Point blank. If we were complaining about a legit top 5 or top 10 RB only getting 6 carries, I'd be on board. But Edwards and Hill aren't those type of players.

Big reason why I feel like EDC needs to focus heavily in the RB room this offseason. Bring in multiple high potential guys. Dobbins durability has absolutely destroyed this teams total potential. I really feel like if Mitchell is there and healthy against KC, he gets a lot more work than Edwards and Hill got. Maybe it makes a difference in the first half.

 

 

I've been wondering how long Edwards can maintain his performance.  He's  turning 29 next year, his rushing over expectation is on a downward trend, and at this age you don't usually see an uptick in performance.  JK has been elite in rushing over expectation every year he's been healthy enough to play, but unfortunately health is a big problem.

 

This is a bit of a tangent, but it's interesting how the highest powered offenses in the league all have elite RBs.  The Dolphins got Achane in the 3rd round, I certainly wouldn't be opposed to taking a RB in the 2nd or 3rd if our board dictated it.

[Mackus]

Looking at what already happened and trying to shoehorn in runs doesn't really work because a different game plan changes everything whether it's better or worse. Although they moved the ball, the offense never really looked comfortable.

If they fully committed to running the ball, there's still only three options:

It fails miserably and they lose.
It works well, the offense gets in a rhythm but they still lose.
It works well, the offense gets in a rhythm and they win.

The point us "6 carries" folks are making is that Ravens offense is most successful when there's a good mix of run (not just from the QB) and pass and both feed off each other. Abandoning what made you successful doesn't always work and it didn't here.

Certainly you can find a few examples, if it's such an obvious point. Hell, I found some for you. I would've liked to see about 5 more RB runs. The few times I mentioned and in place of at least one if not both sweeps to Zay.