Posted 26 December 2023 - 03:58 PM
More information on Heasley through a scout's eyes - Blog (masnsports.com)
The guy looks like cannon fodder at first glance. But the O's have the knack of picking up loose arms and turning them into gold.This guy takes an optimistic view.
His best role seems to be middle, 2-3 inning, once thru the order relief. They need that.
Soccer Analyst
Posted 26 December 2023 - 05:39 PM
"Having one minor league option had to increase his appeal with the organization. "
Seems like most every player they are interested in is because they have options and/or years of control. I get the value in that but shouldn't the prime consideration be talent? No harm no foul to get this guy but dang it I would like to see them actually target a legit stud of a player. Just once. This team is to good to keep bargain basement hunting.
HOF
Posted 26 December 2023 - 06:33 PM
"Having one minor league option had to increase his appeal with the organization. "
Seems like most every player they are interested in is because they have options and/or years of control. I get the value in that but shouldn't the prime consideration be talent? No harm no foul to get this guy but dang it I would like to see them actually target a legit stud of a player. Just once. This team is to good to keep bargain basement hunting.
For the Orioles, this is a Talent play, but it's not the Talent you want.
In most offseasons, there's a pretty broad list of things the Orioles need to do. This year the list is pretty simple.
1) Find a solid one+ year closer to bridge back to Bautista and even if it was obvious and simple, you still have to get it done and they inked Kimbrel to fill that role as he moves up the All-Time Saves list. This wouldn't be a move without the Bautista injury, but you fight from the foxhole you're in.
2) Find someone legit for the top of the rotation. I think the answer is pretty simple here and I'm actually a little surprised we don't already have Burnes. Get it done and we can stop talking about the things we need to do.
3) Well...most of the others are actually trading off the Major League roster, because they have to do some cleanup to make the 26-man work and create the opportunities they want to create.
....but you need guys like Heasley. You can't dismiss the importance of the Rules of MLB because you have to execute with those Rules. If you don't like the impact of options, change the Rules, because options are a real thing.
The Orioles have been very successful picking off Talent they like to fill roles. The had the 5th best bullpen in MLB last year and despite the comical lamentations of some wrt Hyde, the entire bullpen is pre-2019 Talent and Waiver (or the equivalent of) claims.
The Orioles bullpen (right now) lacks a lot of flexibility and includes ARB players at AAA. They have to thin things at some point, but whenever they do some of the work they need to do (between now and Opening Day), they'll need players like Beasley to carry some water over the course of the 2024 season.
HOF
Posted 26 December 2023 - 06:41 PM
... and Waiver (or the equivalent of) claims.
Waiver Claim is a specific thing, but (when I use it) it's broadly representative of Players that can't make a Team's 40-man roster. Rule5 picks (like Tyler Wells) or fringe adds to a trade (like Cano) are still representative of a "Wavier Claim" type of Talent.
wrt Heasley, yes it's a trade, but he's getting kicked off the Royals 40 by the Wacha addition and the Orioles trade nothing to get him....so sure, he's not a technical Waiver Claim, but he's in the exact same Talent pool of Players for the purposes of simplicity.
Posted 27 December 2023 - 11:10 AM
Everybody knows the ONE really significant thing the Orioles need is a TOR starter. And about 26 other teams would try to get one. It's not rocket science. They have the lowest payroll in the Majors and oodles to trade. But they also have an owner who refuses to get anybody who makes real money. I don't want another 4th/5th starter/innings-eater type, but it looks like that's about all we can expect...another Gibson or someone like him.
HOF
Posted 27 December 2023 - 12:32 PM
Everybody knows the ONE really significant thing the Orioles need is a TOR starter. And about 26 other teams would try to get one. It's not rocket science. They have the lowest payroll in the Majors and oodles to trade. But they also have an owner who refuses to get anybody who makes real money. I don't want another 4th/5th starter/innings-eater type, but it looks like that's about all we can expect...another Gibson or someone like him.
I think the budget is certainly a factor, but I also think Elias is very protective of his prospects. I still think we make a significant trade, but I think the search is for someone on the way up, who can be protected for 3 or 4 years. I think the Marlins and the Mariners may be good matches.
I think Elias is very reluctant to trade 3 or 4 good prospects for someone like Cease, who is coming off a down year and only has 2 years of control.
I am staying patient, because I think Elias will do the right thing. He usually does.
HOF
Posted 27 December 2023 - 02:25 PM
I am staying patient, because I think Elias will do the right thing. He usually does.
HOF
Posted 27 December 2023 - 03:00 PM
He hasn't ever made a significant addition yet, despite three opportunities (deadline '22, off-season '23, deadline '23) to do so. So while I'm wholeheartedly on board for glorifying his results with draft and development, I have equally as much lack of faith in his willingness or ability to make a big addition. Hard to know exactly where to blend Elias and Angelos in that regard, so I don't really bother to try to do so since the end result is the same for all of us.
This.
As it relates to this thread, I think the Heasley level moves are well within his (Elias) purview, but I'd suggest we've seen plenty of evidence that suggests there's a realignment of decision making within the Organization. The conditions have changed (from the first 3 years) and John Angelos clearly wants to emerge. What we don't know is how that internal dynamic plays out in bigger moves.
Soccer Analyst
Posted 27 December 2023 - 06:01 PM
For the Orioles, this is a Talent play, but it's not the Talent you want.
In most offseasons, there's a pretty broad list of things the Orioles need to do. This year the list is pretty simple.
1) Find a solid one+ year closer to bridge back to Bautista and even if it was obvious and simple, you still have to get it done and they inked Kimbrel to fill that role as he moves up the All-Time Saves list. This wouldn't be a move without the Bautista injury, but you fight from the foxhole you're in.
2) Find someone legit for the top of the rotation. I think the answer is pretty simple here and I'm actually a little surprised we don't already have Burnes. Get it done and we can stop talking about the things we need to do.
3) Well...most of the others are actually trading off the Major League roster, because they have to do some cleanup to make the 26-man work and create the opportunities they want to create.
....but you need guys like Heasley. You can't dismiss the importance of the Rules of MLB because you have to execute with those Rules. If you don't like the impact of options, change the Rules, because options are a real thing.
The Orioles have been very successful picking off Talent they like to fill roles. The had the 5th best bullpen in MLB last year and despite the comical lamentations of some wrt Hyde, the entire bullpen is pre-2019 Talent and Waiver (or the equivalent of) claims.
The Orioles bullpen (right now) lacks a lot of flexibility and includes ARB players at AAA. They have to thin things at some point, but whenever they do some of the work they need to do (between now and Opening Day), they'll need players like Beasley to carry some water over the course of the 2024 season.
You are putting words in my mouth. I have no problem with getting guys with options and/or years of service. What I said is that I think
talent should be the prime consideration."
HOF
Posted 27 December 2023 - 10:25 PM
You are putting words in my mouth. I have no problem with getting guys with options and/or years of service. What I said is that I think
talent should be the prime consideration."
Talent IS a consideration for this. I said it's not the move you want (hey, me neither) but they aren't framing it as that move what you or I want. It's just a fringe back-of-the-roster move. There's no order.
Personally, the standard for me is Burnes or I don't like it as much. If Bieber checks out (health) I like that a partial grade less. Cease is OK, but I wouldn't pay what it takes (give MIL less).
Heasley doesn't impact an offseason grade in any direction.
Posted 28 December 2023 - 01:05 PM
When was the last Orioles' trade acquisition who did?
HOF
Posted 28 December 2023 - 01:10 PM
No idea why I started calling him "Beasley" instead of "Heasley". editing now.
Posted 28 December 2023 - 01:12 PM
As it relates to this thread, I think the Beasley level moves are well within his (Elais) purview,
MY...such leeway.
HOF
Posted 28 December 2023 - 01:25 PM
When was the last Orioles' trade acquisition who did?
We don't have one yet. As Mackus has pointed out, it's fair to question where the issues reside. There's probably some issues on both the Elias and Angelos side.
Mike Elias, now entering year 6 has yet to make an impact trade. That's not to say that some trades haven'ty been good, but we still don't have a trade for a perceived top-of-the-system type guy. If he just wanted the lower rated packages (guys further down) and believe he can get the extra guy he likes by staying off the top guys (exactly my position in the Burnes trade), that's fine....but we don't have an example yet where he targeted a guy that was perceived impact and got it done....and that includes 3+ years where he likely had the autonomy to do whatever he wanted tearing things down.
Last year, he made 2 fringe adds. People dismiss this and I don't actually care about any of the 3 guys we gave up for Flaherty, but we shouldn't have even been giving up guys in our top30. 2 guys outside the top30 OR any ONE of those guys should have been plenty for Flaherty. Again, OK, getting Flaherty (I discussed him well earlier) and I don't actually care about the package they give up, but it is indicative of something..
..so while JA has his own set of issues, I'm not sure Elias has the relationships to do some of the things we want to see. As anyone may recall, Jeff Luhnow had a similar issue in dealing with other teams, which is why the Verlander deal almost didn't happen and it literally took a worst-flood-in-Houston-history to get them to move. We can point to a number of examples coming out of the Astros Organization and the fallout after the cheating broke. Mike Elias was trained in that environment. Maybe he's different or can change, but I don't think we have an example to point to yet.
Looking forward to the first one. Hoping is doesn't take a natural (or any) disaster.
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