417 replies to this topic

[makoman]

Disagree with this.  Agree that there are times to take what's there and times to look for bigger plays.  But most of the time, unless its a key 3rd down or some other thing where picking up a few yards is vital, should be looking for big plays.  Everyone just reacts when something bad happens and says Lamar should've taken some middling gain instead, which is fine, but nobody then goes back and puts the plusses on the ledger for when he could've ran for 6 yards but instead took a shot that got a bigger gain.

 

I think he's doing an excellent job of balancing keeping it himself versus looking for something through the air.  

It's the same with "he just needs to throw the ball away" and then you get plays like the Likely play. You're just going to have to take the bad with the good with Lamar, and usually the good outweighs the bad. Hopefully it stays that way in the playoffs.

[Biggsy]

Disagree with this. Agree that there are times to take what's there and times to look for bigger plays. But most of the time, unless its a key 3rd down or some other thing where picking up a few yards is vital, should be looking for big plays. Everyone just reacts when something bad happens and says Lamar should've taken some middling gain instead, which is fine, but nobody then goes back and puts the plusses on the ledger for when he could've ran for 6 yards but instead took a shot that got a bigger gain.

I think he's doing an excellent job of balancing keeping it himself versus looking for something through the air.

Agree with all of this. You can't just Cherry pick the INT's or sacks and say he should throw it away or just take a small gain. You have to look at the whole body of work. The Likely play. The 10 second TD earlier in the season. The other earlier pass to Likely last night. The should have been catch to OBJ 30 yards downfield last night.


I love that he's looking to make a big play with his arm while running around. That's what has made Mahomes special as well. The ability to extend the initial play, and hit something on the freestyle on the back end, is something very few other QB's have the ability to do. Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Lamar, Rodgers, Lawrence and Prescott all have that ability. I don't think it's a coincidence that almost all of those guys are considered to be top 10 QB's in the NFL.


What I find more unsettling is that Lamar breaks the pocket and buys 8+ seconds with regularity, and at times he struggles to find someone getting separation. Some of that has to do with what defenses are doing. You saw it last night on a couple of Lamar's scrambles. Jacksonville had dropped 8. And no one was getting open, or finding the open spot on the field. That's where we miss Andrews the most.

[jamesdean]

It was his best throwing day of the year, IMO.  Maybe in multiple years.  I can't recall a single off-target throw, I'm sure there must've been some, but it was the most precise we've seen him in quite a while.  Which is saying something since he's generally been very accurate this year other than the inability to hit any deep throws.

I haven't watched the game yet but were there drops or throwaways?  14-24 doesn't sound particularly "precise." 

[Ravens2006]

I haven't watched the game yet but were there drops or throwaways?  14-24 doesn't sound particularly "precise." 

 

Probably a couple throw aways. One nice play where he hit OBJ downfield but the ball popped out quickly as he hit the ground and rolled over. Flip side, the SportsCenter big highlight play of the night could have been picked off but Likely actually went up and high pointed a tough catch in a double team. But overall he was solid. Stanley was terrible overall, and they were a little too pass heavy through the first half. When they started to run more often it helped slow the pass rush a bit. Even after Mitchell went down they continued feeding Edwards and Hill enough to keep it credible.

 

DeCosta and company would be very very very wise to focus on OTs this coming off-season. One high in the draft, and maybe a solid veteran "second tier" type.  Lamar starting in a pocket that doesn't basically fold quickly on the edges so frequently would be another level I believe.

[SonicAttack]

Ravens get the W against a motivated Jags team.  Lamar did what he had to do, it wasn't his A game, but he made plays when needed and the run game took over. Sucks that Keaton Mitchell is now out of for the season with a knee injury, he was coming on very strong; I hope he can play next year.   Lamar still holds the ball too long, he's not perfect (that would be unfair!).  The team will go as far as Lamar can take them.  The O-line is doing well even with Stanley still hurt, Moses has done very well.  I saw Faalele out there and he seemed to be OK. 

The Ravens still look very strong. Mike McDonald has done a great job as D-Cord in his 2nd year!  I don't think MacDonald will get a HC gig next year, but he could get one after next season if his D continues to be top 5.

[Mike B]

I haven't read the game thread, but last night was Lamar Jackson.  The man competes his ass off, and the Ravens follow his lead.  Screw the stats, he just made winning play after winning play.  

The defense got hit in the mouth early in the 2nd half on the long TD, then just shut the door.

11-3, the top team in the AFC.  I will gladly take it.

The Ravens are very good, the 49ers are very good.  Let's go out there and steal Christmas night.

 

The only bad part of yesterday was Keaton Mitchell.  It sucks he is out for the year, the kid was really coming into his own.  I think on the play he got injured, he had a good chance to take it to the house when the knee locked up.  

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Obviously the goal is much higher but last night almost surely locked up the #3 seed at minimum.


I know you go hard after every game and the 49ers game could play big in seeding but it is a spot where if a guy needs a week you give it to him. We still control our own destiny for the #1 seed even if we lose.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Obviously the goal is much higher but last night almost surely locked up the #3 seed at minimum.


I know you go hard after every game and the 49ers game could play big in seeding but it is a spot where if a guy needs a week you give it to him. We still control our own destiny for the #1 seed even if we lose.

They are one of those teams that hit to injure. Totally with you on this. Not that you ever take a week off, like that def won't happen. But if a guy gets dinged up or is dinged up during practice this week, I'd keep them off the field. NFC opponent, so no bearing on AFC seed tie breakers.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Could also be a big game wrt the national narrative around the MVP race. Fanduel has Brock -200 and Lamar +450 right now as the top two candidates. Dak is +700 and Josh Allen is +1000.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

They are one of those teams that hit to injure. Totally with you on this. Not that you ever take a week off, like that def won't happen. But if a guy gets dinged up or is dinged up during practice this week, I'd keep them off the field. NFC opponent, so no bearing on AFC seed tie breakers.

The Miami game is everything as long as you can back it up by beating Pitt at home. We could beat SF and Pitt and still lose the #1 seed to Mia if they win out. So Im not saying you throw the game or dont try Christmas night but I kinda hate the whole thing. You go cross country to play on a Monday night. Now you come back cross country and play the biggest game of the year on a short week

[hallas]

Yeah so the ball to Likely wasn't double coverage or really any kind of coverage, he had 10 yards on defenders to either side of him.  The guy that came over to try and undercut the ball was actually covering Flowers and sprinted back to Likely after the ball was thrown.  Lamar just couldn't get much on it because of the pressure (and the fact that he was throwing across the field) so he had to throw a duck.  He could have thrown that to the pylon (and that's probably what he was aiming for) and it would have been an uncontested TD.

 

https://imgur.com/a/v22PG1J

[Mike in STL]

It was his best throwing day of the year, IMO.  Maybe in multiple years.  I can't recall a single off-target throw, I'm sure there must've been some, but it was the most precise we've seen him in quite a while.  Which is saying something since he's generally been very accurate this year other than the inability to hit any deep throws.

I don't know about that. It was his best showing when it came to escaping pressure and extending plays longer than defenders can defend, 8, 9, 10 seconds, and still making a throw. Usually, he's either taking off up field or taking a sack after that long. 

 

INT was a pretty bad one. 

 

They didn't throw a single quick screen to Zay that I recall which is an easy completion and they throw a few of those a game. Maybe since everything looked more downfield it looked better.

[PrimeTime]

Disagree with this.  Agree that there are times to take what's there and times to look for bigger plays.  But most of the time, unless its a key 3rd down or some other thing where picking up a few yards is vital, should be looking for big plays.  Everyone just reacts when something bad happens and says Lamar should've taken some middling gain instead, which is fine, but nobody then goes back and puts the plusses on the ledger for when he could've ran for 6 yards but instead took a shot that got a bigger gain.

 

I think he's doing an excellent job of balancing keeping it himself versus looking for something through the air.  

 

If you think I'm reacting because a bad thing happened, you've never read a thing I've posted or wrote. I have no problem with Lamar looking downfield to make a play and that is a critical part of his growth as a quarterback.

 

With that said, there have been more than a few examples this season of Lamar perhaps being a bit too greedy in going after the bigger play downfield and taking a hit or forcing a throw. The interception last night was an ill advised mistake. Throwing late over the middle is never a good idea, particularly when a 1st down was easily attainable via scramble and we would've been on the edges of field goal range. 

 

So perhaps I should say that I hope Lamar's desire to make a play with his arm vs with his legs and the decisions therein, include consideration of game situation, field position, etc. 

 

I think we may be coming to the same conclusion but expressing it in different ways. Simply put, the Lamar experience is something none of us have seen before. He is truly 1 of 1, a generational talent and whatever other superlative you wish to apply. Along the way, he will dazzle and he will frustrate but it will certainly never bore.

[PrimeTime]

Agree with all of this. You can't just Cherry pick the INT's or sacks and say he should throw it away or just take a small gain. You have to look at the whole body of work. The Likely play. The 10 second TD earlier in the season. The other earlier pass to Likely last night. The should have been catch to OBJ 30 yards downfield last night.


I love that he's looking to make a big play with his arm while running around. That's what has made Mahomes special as well. The ability to extend the initial play, and hit something on the freestyle on the back end, is something very few other QB's have the ability to do. Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Lamar, Rodgers, Lawrence and Prescott all have that ability. I don't think it's a coincidence that almost all of those guys are considered to be top 10 QB's in the NFL.


What I find more unsettling is that Lamar breaks the pocket and buys 8+ seconds with regularity, and at times he struggles to find someone getting separation. Some of that has to do with what defenses are doing. You saw it last night on a couple of Lamar's scrambles. Jacksonville had dropped 8. And no one was getting open, or finding the open spot on the field. That's where we miss Andrews the most.

 

One of the most important jobs as a quarterback is taking care of the football, wouldn't you say? In that vein, I think there's certainly value in looking at turnovers and seeing what could have been done to avoid them. Some interceptions happen, some are a product of poor decision making. So yes, Lamar will more often than not dazzle us with escapability and play making unlike many of us have ever seen. However, it doesn't mean we should simply say "oh well" when he makes an easily avoidable mistake; Lamar is not above reproach. The interception last night was an example of an easily avoidable mistake. I don't classify that as cherry picking to say so. As I said, all interceptions are not created equally.

[jamesdean]

One of the most important jobs as a quarterback is taking care of the football, wouldn't you say? In that vein, I think there's certainly value in looking at turnovers and seeing what could have been done to avoid them. Some interceptions happen, some are a product of poor decision making. So yes, Lamar will more often than not dazzle us with escapability and play making unlike many of us have ever seen. However, it doesn't mean we should simply say "oh well" when he makes an easily avoidable mistake; Lamar is not above reproach. The interception last night was an example of an easily avoidable mistake. I don't classify that as cherry picking to say so. As I said, all interceptions are not created equally.

With Lamar, it's part of the package.  He's going to have at least a play or two every game where you just shake your head and hopefully, it doesn't cost them a game.  An unbelievable playmaker but in the midst of trying to make those plays, he will turn the ball over sometimes.  You take the bad with the good.   

[PrimeTime]

With Lamar, it's part of the package.  He's going to have at least a play or two every game where you just shake your head and hopefully, it doesn't cost them a game.  An unbelievable playmaker but in the midst of trying to make those plays, he will turn the ball over sometimes.  You take the bad with the good.   

 

I think this is very fair. You still can't help but shake your head when the boneheaded plays happen. But no QB is perfect by any means and 8 is amongst the best in the league.

[hallas]

One of the most important jobs as a quarterback is taking care of the football, wouldn't you say? In that vein, I think there's certainly value in looking at turnovers and seeing what could have been done to avoid them. Some interceptions happen, some are a product of poor decision making. So yes, Lamar will more often than not dazzle us with escapability and play making unlike many of us have ever seen. However, it doesn't mean we should simply say "oh well" when he makes an easily avoidable mistake; Lamar is not above reproach. The interception last night was an example of an easily avoidable mistake. I don't classify that as cherry picking to say so. As I said, all interceptions are not created equally.

 

I thought Lamar got fooled by the safety there.  The safety put Agholor between Lamar and himself, so his line of sight may have been blocked.  Agholor had around 2 or 3 yards of separation but the safety didn't bite on the pumpfake and closed the distance while the ball was in flight.  Hopefully he learns from that one.  He doesn't make that mistake too often.

[hallas]

I think this is very fair. You still can't help but shake your head when the boneheaded plays happen. But no QB is perfect by any means and 8 is amongst the best in the league.

 

I think early season he was just putting the ball on the turf for 0, and I don't think those were bad decisions per se, but bad execution (maybe there is an example of a bad decision, but I can't think of it right now.)  In general, at least for this year, I think he usually has been throwing the ball fairly safely, so I think you can take some risky decision making to make a huge play.  His turnover worthy play rate is like middle of the pack/slightly above average, but that's largely driven by his fumble rate, not so much by his throwing.