98 replies to this topic

[SportsGuy]

I truly do not think the Orioles have the pieces to snag Upton.

Sure they can trade Tillman, Britton, Matusz, or whatever.
That also means you are insinuating that Miguel Gonzalez and the other cast of pitchers are going to be just as good down the road. I would have a tough time coming to that conclusion right now.

I just do not think both teams match up well. I also have a hard time believing the Orioles would trade Tillman.

I guess if they want to go out and sign a SP, then that allows them to trade one of the younger SP. i still do not think they can match another team with an offer. Upton will be costly IMO

The only way we do not match up with Zona is if they insist on getting either a top flight, upper echelon ML ready prospect back or an AS caliber young MLer, like say Andrus.

Otherwise, we match up just fine.

Texas is the one team that I think gives up that player because of the presence of Andrus or Olt. If they are willing to move one of those 2 plus others, they will get him.

[SportsGuy]

http://www.rotoworld...10/justin-upton

I continue to think Hardy can be included in this deal. Zona isn't trying to be cheap, so it's not like Hardys salary should bother them.

Hardy, Tillman and Patton gets you talking it sounds like. Perhaps we need to add a Steve Johnson or someone like that but that deal could work.

[Mackus]

The only way we do not match up with Zona is if they insist on getting either a top flight, upper echelon ML ready prospect back or an AS caliber young MLer, like say Andrus.

Otherwise, we match up just fine.

We've had this exact conversation a few times already, but here it goes again...

I think if the Diamondbacks were forced to trade Upton, that it is possible that we can put together a package that they would consider acceptable for him.

I don't think that we can put together a package for him that will meet their internal threshold for what would be worth it to move Upton. And even if we do, I don't think our package will beat out the best offers from several other teams.

I don't think they have to insist on a top prospect or very good young MLB player for our package to fall short. If they simply just prefer a package that includes that type of player over a package with a larger quantity of lower qyuality pieces, then we won't get Upton.

Duquette should certainly be on the phone and putting together any package that he thinks the Diamondbacks would accept, but it's going to remain my opinion that the Orioles will be unable to put together a package for Upton that would beat all the other offers the Diamondbacks will receive.

[JeremyStrain]

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/mlb/1310/justin-upton

I continue to think Hardy can be included in this deal. Zona isn't trying to be cheap, so it's not like Hardys salary should bother them.

Hardy, Tillman and Patton gets you talking it sounds like. Perhaps we need to add a Steve Johnson or someone like that but that deal could work.

They want a young AS level offensive player to be the best player in the deal. TEX matches up best.

[SportsGuy]

They want a young AS level offensive player to be the best player in the deal. TEX matches up best.

Right...if Texas wants him, they are the team that will give them to him IMO.

But if Texas passes or says that they will not trade either Olt or Andrus in a deal for him, I don't think they get that deal.

Therefore, they look to fill holes, as Olney suggested and perhaps get back Hardy, who is an AS level player at his position.

Then, maybe they can use Bauer to get the young, AS level player they are looking for.

[JeremyStrain]

Right...if Texas wants him, they are the team that will give them to him IMO.

But if Texas passes or says that they will not trade either Olt or Andrus in a deal for him, I don't think they get that deal.

Therefore, they look to fill holes, as Olney suggested and perhaps get back Hardy, who is an AS level player at his position.

Then, maybe they can use Bauer to get the young, AS level player they are looking for.

They aren't dealing Upton for less than a star offensive player. I've heard that repeatedly through multiple people.

Bauer is a tougher sell because everyone knows about his attitude, and he's unproven. With them giving up on him so fast it's a HUGE red flag and they aren't going to get much for him. Pennies on the dollar...they know that which is why they floated it publicly to see if they could spur a bidding war or get someone to make them an offer at the winter meetings.

[RichardZ]

Listening to WFAN in NY today and local writer Joel Sherman says the two teams hottest for Justin Upton are the Rangers (Andrus) and the Rays. I would assume the Rays would offer a deal headlined by pitching (Hellickson?).

[SportsGuy]

Listening to WFAN in NY today and local writer Joel Sherman says the two teams hottest for Justin Upton are the Rangers (Andrus) and the Rays. I would assume the Rays would offer a deal headlined by pitching (Hellickson?).

Well, then we are out if both of the teams are interested and are giving up those players.

Have always felt Texas would be the one team to give that player...Surprised Tampa would because of Upton's salary.

[dpsmith22]

We might have just the guy that can turn Bauer into an ace. Matt Weiters. Weiters seems to be able to get the pitchers ear and trust.

Just a thought.

[RichardZ]

We might have just the guy that can turn Bauer into an ace. Matt Weiters. Weiters seems to be able to get the pitchers ear and trust.

Just a thought.

The Matt Wieters myth continues. If Wieters was so good, then why did Arrieta, Hunter, and Matusz stink so bad last year? Why did Britton have such a bad second half in 2011 after such a good first half? Really! Wieters is an excellent catcher. He doesn't have magical powers.

[JeremyStrain]

The Matt Wieters myth continues. If Wieters was so good, then why did Arrieta, Hunter, and Matusz stink so bad last year? Why did Britton have such a bad second half in 2011 after such a good first half? Really! Wieters is an excellent catcher. He doesn't have magical powers.

Unless he's a Jedi and trying to keep it on the down low, this is correct. No one can help Bauer but himself, and he's made it very clear that he knows best and you can't convince him otherwise. Apparently he does not read boxscores.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Why did Britton have such a bad second half in 2011 after such a good first half?

Not that it matters to the general point you are making (and Britton was worse in the 2nd half of '11 than he was in the 1st half), but Britton was very good in August '11.

[SportsGuy]

The Matt Wieters myth continues. If Wieters was so good, then why did Arrieta, Hunter, and Matusz stink so bad last year? Why did Britton have such a bad second half in 2011 after such a good first half? Really! Wieters is an excellent catcher. He doesn't have magical powers.

Thank you!!!

And why did Paulino have a better CERA last year?

And why has our pitching staff sucked with Matt here, prior to 2012?

[Tucker Blair]

Thank you!!!

And why did Paulino have a better CERA last year?

And why has our pitching staff sucked with Matt here, prior to 2012?

Paulino caught 85 innings. Not sure how you can relate that to someone who caught over 1000.
The reason the staff sucked prior to 2012 is because they sucked as pitchers.

Wieters is a damn good catcher, but he cannot do it all himself. I think some look WAY too much into this. That goes both ways also. He is not a godsend that restores a pitchers' abilities, but is also not the reason for struggles in the past.

[SportsGuy]

Paulino caught 85 innings. Not sure how you can relate that to someone who caught over 1000.
The reason the staff sucked prior to 2012 is because they sucked as pitchers.

Wieters is a damn good catcher, but he cannot do it all himself. I think some look WAY too much into this. That goes both ways also. He is not a godsend that restores a pitchers' abilities, but is also not the reason for struggles in the past.

I get that...but lets not pretend Wieters has magical powers, as some basically like to say.

He is good...he isn't THAT good.

We have a better chance of a guy like Peterson helping out a pitcher vs Wieters.

[Tucker Blair]

I get that...but lets not pretend Wieters has magical powers, as some basically like to say.

He is good...he isn't THAT good.

We have a better chance of a guy like Peterson helping out a pitcher vs Wieters.

That's what I said.

One thing I do have to say is, Wieters has definitely grown in a cognizant way. He is more adept with the game than in the past. I wouldn't put too much into that in evaluating him, but it is certainly not hurting.

But you guys are right that Wieters is not going to just magically make a young pitcher good.

[You Play to Win the Game]

Wieters cannot physically pitch, and locate pitches. He catches them. Prepares pitchers, calls for a meeting on the mound when their struggling, etc. An impact a catcher has on a pitching performance can potentially be significant, but not without the pre-requisite of the pitcher executing on his end. If Buck continually harps about how well Matt works with the pitchers, I believe him.

[Mike B]

Listening to WFAN in NY today and local writer Joel Sherman says the two teams hottest for Justin Upton are the Rangers (Andrus) and the Rays. I would assume the Rays would offer a deal headlined by pitching (Hellickson?).

I think this makes a lot of sense. The Rangers have Olt and Profar who they claim they will not deal butI would think Arizona would insist on one of these plus more.
The Rays do not have an impact position player to give but they have plenty of pitching.
The interesting thing is if the Rays got Justin Upton he would replace his brother.

As for our involvement with Upton, do not see it coming close to happening, but if we do why not sign BJ and trade the players left for other needs.

[dpsmith22]

Although i agree he has no "magical powers", I have heard enough pitchers praise him up and down. I especially hear from Tillman and Gonzales, "He is so good with the game planning and calling, I just throw what he puts down".

They don't have to say this about him, but they do. They ALL do.

[SportsGuy]

Although i agree he has no "magical powers", I have heard enough pitchers praise him up and down. I especially hear from Tillman and Gonzales, "He is so good with the game planning and calling, I just throw what he puts down".

They don't have to say this about him, but they do. They ALL do.

Most pitchers say that about their teams catcher.