570 replies to this topic

[PrimeTime]

I must have misssed that because I sure didn't see it.

We tried a bunch of stuff in protection to slow down Mack but it just didn't work.

[NewMarketSean]

How is Harbaugh so clueless? I mean he's an NFL coach. Won a SB. Maybe even a HOF candidate. How can he fail to challenge two spots that are likely first downs but then challenge a play that was obvious in real time?  How can a 44 year old basic white guy 3 whiskeys in see something that he can't, feet away from where it is happening?

 

This is the kind of crap that will cost us massively in the playoffs.

[Ravens2006]

How is Harbaugh so clueless? I mean he's an NFL coach. Won a SB. Maybe even a HOF candidate. How can he fail to challenge two spots that are likely first downs but then challenge a play that was obvious in real time?  How can a 44 year old basic white guy 3 whiskeys in see something that he can't, feet away from where it is happening?

 

This is the kind of crap that will cost us massively in the playoffs.

 

He doesn't seem to care much about the DETAILS of what's happening in front of him.  He doesn't pay attention to that stuff... the game clock, the score spread, the field position, the momentum either way, the pace of the snaps, etc.  He sees his primary job on game day as the lead cheerleader and pep talk coordinator.  The coordinators run their units largely in a vacuum with nobody enforcing the bigger picture.  He's admitted that much basically in the past, and we see nothing to change that.  Secondary to his head cheerleader job, he complains to officials.  

 

To admit that they ran the next play after Agholor's catch and run was marked short, THINKING it was actually first down... is mind-blowing.  To me the better question is... why does he get away with it? 

 

2011 AFC title game with a timeout in his pocket, he watched Cundiff and the FG unit RUSH in to position to kick a FG that held their season in the balance.  Just stood there and watched.  As Cundiff hooked it left.  This isn't new.  It's been his M.O. forever.  Flacco's arm strength catching the Broncos safety off-guard is the reason he still has this job.  Wouldn't have lasted this long without that ring.

[ivanbalt]

He doesn't seem to care much about the DETAILS of what's happening in front of him.  He doesn't pay attention to that stuff... the game clock, the score spread, the field position, the momentum either way, the pace of the snaps, etc.  He sees his primary job on game day as the lead cheerleader and pep talk coordinator.  The coordinators run their units largely in a vacuum with nobody enforcing the bigger picture.  He's admitted that much basically in the past, and we see nothing to change that.  Secondary to his head cheerleader job, he complains to officials.  

 

To admit that they ran the next play after Agholor's catch and run was marked short, THINKING it was actually first down... is mind-blowing.  To me the better question is... why does he get away with it? 

 

2011 AFC title game with a timeout in his pocket, he watched Cundiff and the FG unit RUSH in to position to kick a FG that held their season in the balance.  Just stood there and watched.  As Cundiff hooked it left.  This isn't new.  It's been his M.O. forever.  Flacco's arm strength catching the Broncos safety off-guard is the reason he still has this job.  Wouldn't have lasted this long without that ring.

He gets away with it because of the winning record and the amount of mediocrity throughout the league.  Carolina for example will likely be paying two fired head coaches when Reich ultimately gets the ax.

 

This obviously doesn't help fans who have to watch the same deficiencies year after year.

[cprenegade]

He gets away with it because of the winning record and the amount of mediocrity throughout the league.  Carolina for example will likely be paying two fired head coaches when Reich ultimately gets the ax.

 

This obviously doesn't help fans who have to watch the same deficiencies year after year.

 

You don't have to say ultimately anymore.  He was just fired this morning.  

[Mike B]

How is Harbaugh so clueless? I mean he's an NFL coach. Won a SB. Maybe even a HOF candidate. How can he fail to challenge two spots that are likely first downs but then challenge a play that was obvious in real time?  How can a 44 year old basic white guy 3 whiskeys in see something that he can't, feet away from where it is happening?

 

This is the kind of crap that will cost us massively in the playoffs.

I could see not challenging the first spot.  It was wrong, but not terrible wrong.  It was the kind of call, that the NFL refs refuse to overturn.  The second call (agholor) was awful.  he made it by over a yard.  I think if I heard the post game presser right, Harbs said he thought they were awarded the first down.  Harbs is seeing the play from behind, and live.  We are seeing it zoomed in, and replayed.  The only issue I had in that situation is why did we go fast both times.  Stop and let your guys upstairs see the play before rushing to the LOS.

Harbs is a good coach, JMO.

[Mike B]

Trying to look at the positive. if that is okay, a lot of good went on last night.

1.  The defense won the ball game last night.  They were as physical, as any game I can remember in awhile.  I felt like they conceded Allen his 5-7 yards per catch then arrived in force after he caught the ball.Herbert threw the ball quickly and when he didn't the Ravens got to him.  Great game plan.

2. The Maulet blitz.  Perfectly timed, perfectly executed.  Great call by MM.  That play was game over.

3. Smith and Queen-they are so good inside.  Terrific

4.  Kyle Hamilton-same as above.  He is a special player.

5.  Michael Pierce and Broderick Washington.  They don't show up in the box score because NT's do not get stats, but watch the replays and take note on all double team they draw.  That opens up a lot of chances for the other guys.

6.  Speaking of tackles, Travis Jones is beginning to flash.  He is big time strong.

7.  Zay Flowers- is just scratching the surface-he is a game breaker and is fun to watch.  I could do without the TD celebrations, but if it is what motivates him, have at it.

8.  Keaton Mitchell- another game breaker.  I think we found something here.  I am old so I remember the older football players, but Mitchell reminds me of Joe Washington who played here for the Colts.  Similar size and running style.  

9.  Isaiah Likely-good first half.   I think he will get better as the season goes on.

10.  Lamar-not his best game, but he did not force things and made the plays to win.  Good read on the Flowers 2nd TD.   

[85Knight]

I could see not challenging the first spot. It was wrong, but not terrible wrong. It was the kind of call, that the NFL refs refuse to overturn. The second call (agholor) was awful. he made it by over a yard. I think if I heard the post game presser right, Harbs said he thought they were awarded the first down. Harbs is seeing the play from behind, and live. We are seeing it zoomed in, and replayed. The only issue I had in that situation is why did we go fast both times. Stop and let your guys upstairs see the play before rushing to the LOS.
Harbs is a good coach, JMO.

I honestly think they should have someone watch the same broadcast that we're watching. Even the broadcast ref points these things out but for some reason the Ravens are not seeing the same thing. This happens way too much and is very baffling.

[Mike B]

I honestly think they should have someone watch the same broadcast that we're watching. Even the broadcast ref points these things out but for some reason the Ravens are not seeing the same thing. This happens way too much and is very baffling.

I am sure they do, but keep in mind there is not a lot of time to make the decision.  Someone upstairs, is in Harbaugh's ear telling him yes or no.  The guys in the broadcast are seeing the replays well after the decision time for a challenge passes.  The LJ spot was a perfect example.  The broadcast crew did not notice and talk to Dean Blandino until after the next play.

[Mike in STL]

Questions about the calls early in the game. 

 

Questionable late hit on Herbert. Geno Smith had his momentum going and turned his body away from Herbert in an effort to slow down. thus, his shoulder/back are what contacts Herbert out of bounds. Perhaps that's why there was a no call. If he was still face up when the contact was made, it's an easy call. But I also see why it wasn't called (despite McAuley wanting everything on earth to be called).

 

Fair catch interference. Hill comes up alongside the receiver. The receiver drifts right to catch the ball, initiating the contact with Hill who has his hands in the air as if to shows he's not the one making the contact. I don't know the exact rules. But if you are trying to field the ball and run into a defender, that doesn't seem like it should benefit the receiving team. Otherwise, they could just run into someone 10 yards away and call interference to get better field position. Again, McAuley is like "this is obvious" is it though? 

 

The bad spot on the Lamar 1st down. I think everyone needs clarity on the rule. On one hand we're told that the goal line extends to infinity so a player diving for the pylon can have the ball out of bounds, but it be a touchdown if it goes past the goal line to infinity. But McAuley tells us that on the sideline its where the ball crosses over the sideline, and not where the ball is when the player lands out of bounds? At the goal line the sideline is beyond the pylon, so if outside the pylon, it has to be short of the goal line, so what's with the goal line to infinity rule? 

 

Also, part of game prep is knowing that a primetime game like Sunday Night Football you get 15 extra cameras or so that you don't get for a 1PM game against the Panthers or something. We know Harbaugh should have challenged the two spots, but even if questionable, know that you have a lot more, better looks that may be favorable. They showed the down the line and the broadcast cam in sync side by side to show it was a first down. Refs get all of these looks that you don't get every week. 

 

Of course, this is probably lost on our super smart head coach, who is definitely watching a different game sometimes. Lamar sack/fumble takes them out of FG range, then throws a 4th down pass OB with time left on the clock for LA to do something. 30 seconds later going to the locker room. "Lamar's vison, pocket awareness has been excellent, he's taking great care of the football..." Follow up question, what planet are you on right now? 

[Mike in STL]

I am sure they do, but keep in mind there is not a lot of time to make the decision.  Someone upstairs, is in Harbaugh's ear telling him yes or no.  The guys in the broadcast are seeing the replays well after the decision time for a challenge passes.  The LJ spot was a perfect example.  The broadcast crew did not notice and talk to Dean Blandino until after the next play.

That's self-inflicted when you are trying to quick snap to catch the defense off guard. They have been doing that a lot this season. 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, just run up and go. If you want to potentially challenge something, wait 5 seconds, TV will show you. When you run up to the line, TV will cut back to the action. 

[Mike B]

That's self-inflicted when you are trying to quick snap to catch the defense off guard. They have been doing that a lot this season. 3rd and 1, 4th and 1, just run up and go. If you want to potentially challenge something, wait 5 seconds, TV will show you. When you run up to the line, TV will cut back to the action. 

I 100% agree.  The quick snap has worked at a high rate this year, but I felt like we should have slowed down on the Agholor play.  That spot was awful.

The LJ play IMO was 60-40 to be overturned so no big issue with that play.

[Mike in STL]

I 100% agree.  The quick snap has worked at a high rate this year, but I felt like we should have slowed down on the Agholor play.  That spot was awful.

The LJ play IMO was 60-40 to be overturned so no big issue with that play.

Yeah, and they may have even thought not to waste a challenge to move the ball a foot when they thought they could get a foot with Gus. But I don't want to give them that kind of credit. Especially when Harbs history is challenging ever worse things with very little upside to winning. The replay showed it was a first, but we've even seen officials see what we see and still not overturn their call.

 

The Chiefs game they passed up a challenge that would have been a TD, and on the next play punched it in on the GL anyway. Was it last week the Browns/Steelers game that the Steelers had 2 safeties on the opening drive, and the Browns never challenged either and they kept getting the ball just outside the endzone? Maybe coaches aren't going to waste challenges when even if they are right the officials will still get it wrong. 

 

But then Harbaugh challenges that dumb play late in the game. So, what are doing? 

 

Officiating is just bad. Really are just guessing, a lot. 

[Mike B]

Yeah, and they may have even thought not to waste a challenge to move the ball a foot when they thought they could get a foot with Gus. But I don't want to give them that kind of credit. Especially when Harbs history is challenging ever worse things with very little upside to winning. The replay showed it was a first, but we've even seen officials see what we see and still not overturn their call.

 

The Chiefs game they passed up a challenge that would have been a TD, and on the next play punched it in on the GL anyway. Was it last week the Browns/Steelers game that the Steelers had 2 safeties on the opening drive, and the Browns never challenged either and they kept getting the ball just outside the endzone? Maybe coaches aren't going to waste challenges when even if they are right the officials will still get it wrong. 

 

But then Harbaugh challenges that dumb play late in the game. So, what are doing? 

 

Officiating is just bad. Really are just guessing, a lot. 

If I were the NFL, I would be embarrassed over last nights crew.    Missed penalties, missed spots just bad.

 

As for the challenges, I hate when I see them.  I am probably wrong but I think the crews hide behind the it is to close to over turn crap.  In most cases, unless its 100% obvious, they do not over turn.

The one they did challenge was bad, but that probably came from up top.

[85Knight]

I am sure they do, but keep in mind there is not a lot of time to make the decision. Someone upstairs, is in Harbaugh's ear telling him yes or no. The guys in the broadcast are seeing the replays well after the decision time for a challenge passes. The LJ spot was a perfect example. The broadcast crew did not notice and talk to Dean Blandino until after the next play.

Well Harbaugh keeps talking about looking at the jumbotron so if they have someone watching the broadcast they aren't communicating well.

I'm pretty sure the replays in the broadcast are coming up quick enough for a challenge flag. It seems like I'm always around people who are yelling "throw the flag."

[ivanbalt]

You don't have to say ultimately anymore.  He was just fired this morning.  

Carolina will be on their 4th head coach since the beginning of the 2022 season.  The owner seems to be following the vastly successful Cleveland model of changing everything every 1-2 years and hoping for different results.

[Mike in STL]

Well Harbaugh keeps talking about looking at the jumbotron so if they have someone watching the broadcast they aren't communicating well.

I'm pretty sure the replays in the broadcast are coming up quick enough for a challenge flag. It seems like I'm always around people who are yelling "throw the flag."

There's another sign of Harbaugh's ineptitude. On the road, the jumbotron operator isn't going to show the away team anything. Been to enough road games to see that myself, and Harbaugh has been to more than me. Most egregious was Lambeau. There was a close play for the Ravens and the jumbotron didn't show a thing. There was a close play for the Packers and they had it up on the board in a second, had a tight zoom in on the feet, or the ball, or whatever was in question. 

 

The Ravens do this too. It's called home field advantage for a reason. The Ravens black out the scoreboard when Tucker kicks so there is no blinking light, or anything catching his eye. They don't do this for away kickers. Not that it's worked this year as I don't know if anyone has missed against the Ravens, the Colts guy went 4/4 from 50+.

[Steve55]

Refs were pretty bad for sure. It definitely went a little bit both ways. Not calling the OOB hit on Herbert of course was HUGE. 4 point swing would have made a big difference maybe in how the final quarter of that game played out.

 

On the fair catch interference... I honestly don't know and probably won't look for details in the rulebook, but the only thing I can think of for NOT calling it (since it was SO obvious) was that the ball landed on the white boundary out of bounds.  Maybe the interpretation is up to the official that the ball wasn't really fair catchable, therefore there's nothing to interfere with??? Like a pass interference can be nullified if the refs think the ball was uncatchable. Just theorizing... the return man would have had to sort of tip toe the sideline and reach out of bounds to make that catch?  I dunno...

 

 

The easy ones to call are the ones where the player is pretty stationary waiting to catch the punt and gets run into. Last night the guy kept drifting over toward the sideline. I think it was said that since the ball landed out of bounds it wasn't a penalty.

[hallas]

Some of Andrews catches are long developing plays. They couldn't do that with Mack in the backfield every pass play. Don't know why they stopped throwing the slant, unless the D adjusted and closed it down. Can they please cut down on the WR screens,

 

Those aren't "long developing plays."  Those are "I ran my route and no one's open, so I'm going to make stuff up and hope Lamar sees me."

 

That requires a connection with Lamar and an intuitive understanding of where he needs to be when Lamar does crazy superman stuff.  And he does that as well as anyone.  It's really hard to replace that.  Lamar's going to have to adjust to that.

[DuffMan]

Is Tucker starting to decline, or this just a bit of a slump?