Hyde Named Manager of the Year
#21
Posted 17 November 2023 - 11:33 AM
So it seems pretty clear to me that Elias doesn't align with those on here that think the lineup and in game decision making is atrocious. If somehow it reached that point though, that would have been on Elias as the person that hired and oversees Hyde, and it would be on him to fix it.
*I certainly haven't twisted anything in the strawman way you're writing, but in game decision making is not so complex to keep the front office from providing detailed guidance for a wide array of decisions. Sure though, Hyde has final say as you mention but it would be very odd for him to consistently reject that guidance and very odd for Elias to accept that.
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#22
Posted 17 November 2023 - 11:40 AM
If we don't get to every other aspect of the job... and we ignore the FO influence... how much do we think the best tactician would be worth over a season vs. knowledgeable guy on their couch (or better said, vs. an 'average' Mgr.)?
#23
Posted 17 November 2023 - 11:41 AM
I'm just going with what's been reported and quite frankly, what is very obvious. It's not particularly believable that an incredibly analytical and meticulous front office would be cool with a manager consistently going against their thoroughly put together lineup and in game decision guidance.
So it seems pretty clear to me that Elias doesn't align with those on here that think the lineup and in game decision making is atrocious. If somehow it reached that point though, that would have been on Elias as the person that hired and oversees Hyde, and it would be on him to fix it.
*I certainly haven't twisted anything in the strawman way you're writing, but in game decision making is not so complex to keep the front office from providing detailed guidance for a wide array of decisions. Sure though, Hyde has final say as you mention but it would be very odd for him to consistently reject that guidance and very odd for Elias to accept that.
Yes. Elias clearly is not on the phone with Hyde telling him to bring in so and so right now. Maybe Elias would not have specifically brought in Jake Webb to a one run game or pinch hit Adam Frazier in the 4th. But I have no doubt that the entire FO+Hyde come to a consensus on lineups, platoon usage, bullpen roles, when, generally, a starter should come out, etc. Hyde is implementing the plan, and his decisions are certainly generally in line with the plan.
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#24
Posted 17 November 2023 - 11:47 AM
If we don't get to every other aspect of the job... and we ignore the FO influence... how much do we think the best tactician would be worth over a season vs. knowledgeable guy on their couch (or better said, vs. an 'average' Mgr.)?
This article is a little old and I have no idea if it's right, but states 95% of managers are worth -2 to +2 wins above average. Generally I think everyone seems to think they don't matter all that much so this is in line with that. If that's the case the soft skills like managing the clubhouse are probably just as important as anything else.
https://fivethirtyei...-of-mediocrity/
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#25
Posted 17 November 2023 - 11:57 AM
^ To add to that though, everyone does definitely manage differently in the playoffs. It may be the case that, say, a guy like Bochy is big difference over a guy like Hyde in October, even if it doesn't matter a ton over 162. No idea.
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#26
Posted 17 November 2023 - 12:41 PM
Yes. Elias clearly is not on the phone with Hyde telling him to bring in so and so right now. Maybe Elias would not have specifically brought in Jake Webb to a one run game or pinch hit Adam Frazier in the 4th. But I have no doubt that the entire FO+Hyde come to a consensus on lineups, platoon usage, bullpen roles, when, generally, a starter should come out, etc. Hyde is implementing the plan, and his decisions are certainly generally in line with the plan.
100%. Baffling for anyone to think otherwise than this.
#27
Posted 17 November 2023 - 01:10 PM
#28
Posted 17 November 2023 - 01:34 PM
Hows the season going? Playing a lot of tight games? Is your run diff a big number either way. If it is then the managers tactics are going to have less impact. Opposite is true if there are a lot of close games and the run diff is tight
If we don't get to every other aspect of the job... and we ignore the FO influence... how much do we think the best tactician would be worth over a season vs. knowledgeable guy on their couch (or better said, vs. an 'average' Mgr.)?
#29
Posted 17 November 2023 - 01:34 PM
I'm not a Hyde fanboy, but it is wild to me that a team that was projected to win games in the low 80s just won 101 along with the East and he gets zero credit.
Clearly something he's doing is working.
It is amusing to read some of the anti Hyde stuff. What is even more amusing is how we are supposed to assume that Hyde is terrible , but the poster(s) is spot on.
#30
Posted 17 November 2023 - 01:45 PM
It is amusing to read some of the anti Hyde stuff. What is even more amusing is how we are supposed to assume that Hyde is terrible , but the poster(s) is spot on.
Yeah I don't know how his performance is considered terrible when the Orioles went from 52 to 83 to 101 wins as the roster went from AAA to big league caliber quality. Isn't that what any sane person/team would want? If the expectation is WS or bust at this stage, people are going to be miserable.
#31
Posted 17 November 2023 - 02:59 PM
Hows the season going? Playing a lot of tight games? Is your run diff a big number either way. If it is then the managers tactics are going to have less impact. Opposite is true if there are a lot of close games and the run diff is tight
So if a team excels in close games and significantly outperforms their pythagorean record, what would that suggest about the manager's tactical impact?
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#32
Posted 17 November 2023 - 03:17 PM
Over enough time it would say something. Its a game of %s. If you make decisions that lower the chances your team wins vs moves that raise the chances the results are not guaranteed either way. The lower % move will work out at times and the higher % will fail at times.So if a team excels in close games and significantly outperforms their pythagorean record, what would that suggest about the manager's tactical impact?
In the meantime why dont you acknowledge that managers have to read game flow and game situations in real time almost every night and have to make real time decisions. Its insulting to these managers/coaches how much most of you want to minimize their real time in game responsibilities and skills.
#33
Posted 17 November 2023 - 03:26 PM
Over enough time it would say something. Its a game of %s. If you make decisions that lower the chances your team wins vs moves that raise the chances the results are not guaranteed either way. The lower % move will work out at times and the higher % will fail at times.
In the meantime why dont you acknowledge that managers have to read game flow and game situations in real time almost every night and have to make real time decisions. Its insulting to these managers/coaches how much most of you want to minimize their real time in game responsibilities and skills.
Yeah, so the Elias/Hyde duo got great measurable results with their tactics.
I don't think I've ever said anything that would result in your last paragraph needing to be said. It's already been acknowledged.
#34
Posted 17 November 2023 - 03:27 PM
So if a team excels in close games and significantly outperforms their pythagorean record, what would that suggest about the manager's tactical impact?
Say, something like 7 games over their pythagorean and around 30-16 in 1 run games?
#35
Posted 17 November 2023 - 03:29 PM
Say, something like 7 games over their pythagorean and around 30-16 in 1 run games?
Lol yep!
#36
Posted 17 November 2023 - 03:43 PM
#37
Posted 17 November 2023 - 03:55 PM
- I'm not a huge fan of the observable decisions (lineup and in game), but it's clear that the front office has a substantial role in that and I think the negativity on this site in this regard is way over the top and the results suggest that I may be onto something
- I think Hyde is likely doing a very good to great job with the rest of what comes with managing a baseball team
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