156 replies to this topic

[mdrunning]

Never good to get beat by two pitchers with combined ERAs well over seven, but I think we'll see in the next four games what this team is made of. If we at least split, fine. If we get swept, then there's definite reason for concern. Maybe we were tightening up the past few games, but why did it start in the middle of a series instead of at the outset? We were fine Monday night, but the pressure is only going to intensify as the season winds down. 

 

Show up tomorrow and let's start this damn thing all over again.

 

[NewMarketSean]

TB licking their chops coming to Baltimore. Shaved a four game deficit to two in four days and now have a four game series against the team they trail.

[fishteacher]

Mounty down…ugh

[BobPhelan]

Mounty down…ugh

Kjerstad up

[russsnyder]

Mountcastle sounded really down during the post game interview. I feel bad for the guy.

[Mike B]

It is night's like the last two, that I repeat Earl's line in my head.  When you are in a pennant race, there are going to be at least a dozen times when you think you have it won and a dozen when you are sure it is lost.

 

Button up people, the Orioles will fight back.

[Mike B]

We were in section 66 last night, down by the net and when Gunnar hit the ball, I knew it was going to be close.  It could not have been more than 2 feet from hitting the good side of that stupid wall.

[jamesdean]

Mountcastle sounded really down during the post game interview. I feel bad for the guy.

What exactly happened to him?

[Mike B]

Palmer's never peaked much above 90. But both he and Boddicker had impeccable control.

They did not measure velo much back in those days, but Palmer threw a lot harder than 90, especially early on.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Keep in mind that as radar gun technology has improved, the guns are able to pick up the ball closer to the pitcher's release point.  This means that the guns read faster.  90 in 1980 is probably 95+ in 2023.

[makoman]

In this interview Palmer claimed he threw 97 at least once. I don't know what's true exactly, but I believe that more than 90.

 

https://www.baseball...-qa-jim-palmer/

[Mackus]

Keep in mind that as radar gun technology has improved, the guns are able to pick up the ball closer to the pitcher's release point.  This means that the guns read faster.  90 in 1980 is probably 95+ in 2023.

 

https://www.baseball...over-the-years/

[Nigel Tufnel]

https://www.baseball...over-the-years/

 

A 90 mph pitch on a Speedgun could register at 92 on a JUGS gun and 93-94 mph on a Stalker. The tech continued to improve. A 94 mph pitch on the Stalker Pro registered as 95 on the Stalker Pro II.

 

So when you read of 85-90 mph fastballs from the early 1980s, realize that they would be registering much faster with current measurement tech. An 85 mph fastball (if registered by a Speedgun at the plate) would be roughly 93 mph if measured by Statcast out of the pitcher’s hand.

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Velo ia obv up but I think some people think guys are throwing 10- 15 mph consistently harder than they did 30-50 years ago. That I dont buy. What does seem to be true is with the throwing of more breaking balls over the years guys have learned how to spin the ball a good bit better and more consistently.

[jamesdean]

Pitchers today are definitely throwing harder.  15 MPH more?  That might be stretching it a bit but 50-60 years ago, you might have had a handful of pitchers who could bring elite heat but overall, I would say most were throwing as hard as say, Mickey Lolich or Dave McNally. Palmer and Bob Gibson were throwing harder than that and then you had a small group like Koufax, Ryan or Sam McDowell who were probably pushing 100 MPH occasionally.  A lot goes into being a strikeout pitcher including having knee bending curveballs.  Or a nasty slider.  Then when you add into the equation that hitters today are trying to hit everything 500 ft. with pronounced lift to their swings, balls aren't being leveled off for the most part and put in play and the strikeouts pile up.  But there's no doubt in my mind that guys today are consistently bringing more heat than they did in Palmer's day. 

[mdrunning]

As referenced above, the methods of measuring a pitcher's velocity have changed over the decades. Bob Feller's fastball was once clocked at 98.6 mph by the US Army in 1946, but it was measured not as it left the pitcher's hand, but when it crossed the plate. Using today's technology, Feller's fastball would clock somewhere between 101 and 107 mph at the point of release.

 

I think what's also overlooked is modern training and baseball (as with all major sports) becoming a year-round job. Guys in previous generations didn't have the luxury of keeping up with their conditioning in the offseason; in almost all cases, they had to work other jobs to make ends meet and so their conditioning most likely suffered somewhat.

 

A previous poster referenced "Sudden" Sam McDowell, who in 1965 made his first All-Star team and led the American League in ERA. In that decade, the average player size was some 20 pounds lighter than contemporary players. McDowell himself weighed around 190, which made him 17 pounds lighter than the average weight of a player today. Yet, he still managed to strike out 10.7 batters per nine innings and logged a total 273 innings that season. (For the record, no major league pitcher has logged as many as 250 innings since Justin Verlander in 2011.) As late as 2011, McDowell ranked ninth on the all-time k/9 IP list at 8.86. Now, he's 32nd.
 

I think the other factor is that pitchers of earlier eras typically went the full nine innings, or at least close to it. Complete games at one time were commonplace; now if a guy pitches one he practically gets a parade in his honor. Even the hardest throwers back then had to pace themselves somewhat; they couldn't just cut loose with pure gas for an entire game because they had nine innings to cover. Teams now are obsessed with guys who can throw blink-and-it's-by-you fastballs, so you'll naturally see more of those types of pitchers. Being able to throw 100 mph today in baseball is sort of like measuring 7-4 in basketball; some team will always be willing to give you a look because those two attributes can't be taught.

[russsnyder]

Chuck Nevitt says hi.