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2023 Game 144: 9/12 St. Louis 6:35PM


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#141 mdrunning

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 08:24 PM

Maybe the 2nd worst loss of the year. 3rd. Only the dropped 3rd out was clearly worse

The Cardinals just took two out of three from the Braves. Losing to them isn't some high crime against humanity.



#142 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 08:26 PM

Losing to Wainwright is indeed a high crime against humanity

#143 Mackus

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 08:26 PM


The Cardinals just took two out of three from the Braves. Losing to them isn't some high crime against humanity.


It's Wainwright that's the problem. Losing to him is the issue. They're Oakland bad in his starts.

#144 mdrunning

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 08:34 PM

It's Wainwright that's the problem. Losing to him is the issue. They're Oakland bad in his starts.

There's no issue in losing to Adam Wainwright or anyone else for that matter. We had him on the ropes a couple of times, but just couldn't come up with the clutch hit. It happens. You beat good teams and sometimes lose to bad ones; likewise you jump all over someone like Gerrit Cole but can't get to a creaky Adam Wainwright. Disappointing, yes, but not unprecedented by any means.



#145 CantonJester

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 08:37 PM

I mean, Adam Wainwright has a puncher's chance at the Hall one day. Probably needs to reach 200 wins and find a sympathetic veteran's committee to get in (and hell yes there are certainly worse pitchers in Cooperstown). 


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#146 85Knight

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Posted 12 September 2023 - 09:09 PM

There's no issue in losing to Adam Wainwright or anyone else for that matter. We had him on the ropes a couple of times, but just couldn't come up with the clutch hit. It happens. You beat good teams and sometimes lose to bad ones; likewise you jump all over someone like Gerrit Cole but can't get to a creaky Adam Wainwright. Disappointing, yes, but not unprecedented by any means.


Naw that's a bad loss. Too many LOB's. You have to call it what it is. It happens over 162 but we definitely gave this one away.
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#147 Mackus

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 09:35 AM

There's no issue in losing to Adam Wainwright or anyone else for that matter. We had him on the ropes a couple of times, but just couldn't come up with the clutch hit. It happens. You beat good teams and sometimes lose to bad ones; likewise you jump all over someone like Gerrit Cole but can't get to a creaky Adam Wainwright. Disappointing, yes, but not unprecedented by any means.

 

Lol, of course its not unprecedented.  Its still bad and frustrating to lose to a guy with an 8+ ERA.  Its a really bad loss.  They don't count any more than good losses, and we know this team doesn't ever have any hangover effect, so nothing beyond one bad day.  But damn, it was definitely one of the worst losses of the season, IMO.  McKenna's dropped final out, blowing a 3-run save via GS, Rodriguez' last start before demotion, Gibson blowing a 4-run lead...probably forgetting a couple other really obnoxious ones but last night joins the Top Ten list for certain.


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#148 russsnyder

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 10:06 AM

It's a bad loss, but I have to give Wainwright credit. That was a bulldogish effort. Win the series tonight.
<p>"F IT!, Let's hit." Ted Williams

#149 Mike B

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 10:33 AM

Wainwright gave a veteran performance last night and the Cardinals had his back.  It's baseball it happens the aging veteran finds a way to get it done.  Its a loss, not bad or good.  It's just a loss.

 

I am going tonight, I expect us to win.  Let's go Kyle Gibson.  This will be game 22 for me.  I think I have seen Gibson 7 times.


@mikeghg

#150 mweb08

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 10:50 AM

Aging vets that find a way to get it done in a given start normally have stats more like the backend of our rotation, not an ERA in the mid 8's lol.

#151 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 11:30 AM


Aging vets that find a way to get it done in a given start normally have stats more like the backend of our rotation, not an ERA in the mid 8's lol.

For real. They faced the equivilant of a college bound HS pitcher. Embarrasing. Not one going to a top program either btw. Like a mid Div 1 baseball program.

#152 Mackus

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 11:48 AM

Here's a fun way to put it...

 

In the past 25 seasons, there have been 3696 times a pitcher has thrown 90 or more innings in a season.  Adam Wainwright's 2023 is the single worst ERA amongst that group.  And that's after he lowered his ERA by 1/4 run yesterday.

 

Less fun bonus note to that, the 2nd and 3rd worst ERA seasons were both Orioles.  Scott Erickson in 2000 (7.87) and Chris Tillman in 2017 (7.84).  2000 Jason Johnson, 2006 Bruce Chen, and 2017 Ubaldo Jimenez all among the 30 worst single seasons, or the worst 1% of the last 25 years.

 

https://www.fangraph...=desc&pagenum=1


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#153 BaltBird 24

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 11:52 AM

It seems like Wainwright will mix in a decent game every once in a while between his absolute disasters. We aren't the only team he had a decent game against. It happens.

#154 Mackus

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 11:54 AM

Todd Van Poppel at 9.06 in 1996 is the only season worse than Wainwright's current year since 1930.  A few random bums from the roaring 20's annoyingly prevent me from just saying "in the past 100 years".



#155 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 12:15 PM

Here's a fun way to put it...

In the past 25 seasons, there have been 3696 times a pitcher has thrown 90 or more innings in a season. Adam Wainwright's 2023 is the single worst ERA amongst that group. And that's after he lowered his ERA by 1/4 run yesterday.

Less fun bonus note to that, the 2nd and 3rd worst ERA seasons were both Orioles. Scott Erickson in 2000 (7.87) and Chris Tillman in 2017 (7.84). 2000 Jason Johnson, 2006 Bruce Chen, and 2017 Ubaldo Jimenez all among the 30 worst single seasons, or the worst 1% of the last 25 years.

https://www.fangraph...=desc&pagenum=1

Thanks for the heartburn dude

#156 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 12:17 PM

To be fair all those guys were obviously bad but for me it shows you how much pitching in Camden Yards had at least some affect on these SP. Van Popell doing it while pitching half his games in Oak Coll is impressive AF tho

#157 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 12:21 PM

Speaking of Van Poppel and looking at his BR page how in the f did that guy ever throw 900 ML innings. 5.58 career ERA. Surely thats gotta be one of the worst for a guy with 900 ML innings. Yes, this is me baiting Mackus.

#158 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 12:25 PM

For reference Daniel Cabrera threw 900 innings(just under) and had an ERA of 5.10 and ERA+ of 88. Van Poppels's was 80.

#159 makoman

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 12:27 PM

You get a lot of leash as a former #1 prospect, I guess.



#160 Mackus

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Posted 13 September 2023 - 12:36 PM

Speaking of Van Poppel and looking at his BR page how in the f did that guy ever throw 900 ML innings. 5.58 career ERA. Surely thats gotta be one of the worst for a guy with 900 ML innings. Yes, this is me baiting Mackus.

 

https://www.fangraph...=desc&pagenum=1

 

Yep, Van Poppel has the worst ERA of all time for anyone with 900+ IP, which is a list of 1450 pitcher.s  Some familiar names on the first page of the list (worst 2% all time) include Jimmy Haynes, Jordan Lyles, Jaret Wright, Mark Hendrickson, Sidney Ponson, and Jason Johnson.  Also former Terp Eric Milton and former #1 overall Luke Hochevar.


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