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Too early to talk trade?


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#1 dude

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 09:46 PM

Typically I'd say yes, but there are needs that are out there and situations to start considering.

 

Couple thoughts on doing something early.  Actions speak louder than words.  If you want to change a narrative, go do something.  We don't have to wait to the deadline. If you're willing to take some money to accomplish something, then you did.  Actions. All we have is words so far.  Also....Orioles are playing well but could use a bat...2B is certainly an option, but we aren't getting much out of DH outside of starter rotation.

 

You fight from the foxhole you're in.  Things will be different later....but here's 5 trades.  I'll add specific players, but it's more the concept of quality/magnitude.

 

Trade 1: Trade for Charlie Blackmon.  I don't think it's a big package.  He's 36 and has played his whole career in COL.  He's making 15M this year in the last year of his deal.  COTs has him with a 15-team no-trade, whatever.  Rox are already done this season so start moving some things and position for next year.  No idea if he wants to be career in one place guy or if he wants to play next year.  If he wants to play and it won't be in COL, then getting out of Coors and showing what he can do in a Playoff race would help his 2024.  If he's retiring after this and doesn't want to leave, hey, his call.  COL also has a CompB pick this year, buy it with some cash differential.

 

Impact: Stabilize the lineup every day. You would use the PIT Game2 lineup but instead of O'Hearn, you have Blackmon and he hits 3rd pushing everyone else down.  Career-wise he's been good vs LH and RH.  Getting the Comp B is Win Now, Win Later.

 

Hudson Haskin, Maikol Hernandez, Mishael Deson and Jean Pinto (sorry Bob) for Blackmon, CompB(2-65) and 5M.

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Trade 2.  LAD needs a SS (Joey Ortiz).  I love this trade.  It's a real prospect trade depth for depth.  Ortiz isn't going to make a difference for the Orioles and moving him into a good situation sends a good Organizational message.  If you need opportunity, we'll find it for you, even if it's not here.  Dodgers are struggling at SS this year and Ortiz fills a hole.  The defense should play and there's offensive upside.  He helps the Dodgers now.  Will Smith is amazing this year and the Dodgers can keep whoever they want.  Their top prospect is a catcher.   Daulton Rushing is producing big numbers at HiA and is a LHed hitting C/1B/DH type.  Both good systems, they are both ranked (mlb.com) #7.  Ortiz is actually from LA.

 

Impact: Moves Ortiz into a good situation and adds a potential impact bat a couple years from now.  Frees up a 40-man.  Win Later

 

Joey Ortiz for Dalton Rushing

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Trade 3. Move a RP, add something future.  Reading the Kjerstad thread days ago, I remember wanting Casey Martin (Arkansas) in the 2020 draft and he fell down the board.  He was actually pretty bad the last couple years, but seems to be putting something together a little this year.  He's fallen completely out of Phillies top30 so again a guy that shouldn't cost much.  Orioles need to move a RP and make room for Givens soon.  Other guys with options make sense, but if you moved Voth, that increases the flexibility of the BP.  Voth isn't doing great, but could help the Phillies pen, maybe spot start. The Orioles are building some reputation so I sometimes wonder if teams want a guy to talk to him also and compare some developmental notes.

 

Impact: Better align assets in the BP, buy low on a MiL player.  Frees up a 40-man.

 

Austin Voth for Casey Martin 

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Trade 4.  Go after Madrigal.  Basically this comes down to me preferring the profile of Madrigal over Urias and Vavra combined.  He's a good defender and has better speed.  He's a UT guy with the Cubs, but they are RHed at 2B, SS and 3B and NM is RHed.  Madrigal is a Super 2 so this could be a situation where having a non-arbitration LHed UT bat is better than having a arbitration eligible RHed one for the Cubs.  With a .600s OPS, he's not a big ask.  I think NM is a better fit/compliment to the Orioles roster right now and he's friends with AR.  They played together on the OSU Championship team.

 

Impact: Something of a platoon bat with Frazier and better speed off the bench.

 

Terrin Vavra for Nick Madrigal (they can have something outside of top 30 that Bob doesn't want to give up too)

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Trade 5. I like Urias, but I just wouldn't be playing him so much with the rest of the roster.  He deserves more routine opportunity, preferably at 3B.  He won a GG.  He's a .750 OPS hitter more or less with decent pop.  Madrigal can do anything we need Urias to do, buy low on Madrigal and sell higher on Urias.  There's 4 teams competing for the playoffs right now that are getting killed at 3B.  Tigers, Twins, Mets and Marlins.  Let's have fun with this and get 2 CompBal picks for Urias.  DET/MIN/FLA all have a CompA this year.  Put a third team together with a CompB (we already have the Rockies!) or a CompA and we can swap the Orioles CompB.

 

Impact: again, better alignment for Win Now and 2 more draft picks for Win later.

 

Urias for CompA and CompB (Teams TBD)

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You've improved current opportunity win (Blackmon) and I like the bench better (Madrigal).  Move deserving players (Ortiz, Urias, Vavra) into places where they'll have more opportunity.  Add 2 players (Martin, Rushing) and 3 draft picks (A, B, B) to continue to build layers. 

 

TLDR.  <<thumbs up>>



#2 bmore_ken

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 10:31 PM

5 OF 6 starting pitchers are at 4.40+ERAs. The position they neglected in the offseason. All that other stuff you posted is just noise. 



#3 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 10:59 PM

5 OF 6 starting pitchers are at 4.40+ERAs. The position they neglected in the offseason. All that other stuff you posted is just noise. 

Yeah I think any trade convo starts with what CWS wants for 2 months of Giolito 



#4 CantonJester

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 11:18 PM

Yeah I think any trade convo starts with what CWS wants for 2 months of Giolito 

 

It'd cost a lot of prospect capital to get Chicago to bite two months ahead of TDL. I'm not sure he's worth it (and he will cost a lot). 



#5 CantonJester

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 11:20 PM

SP is a must, but getting Santander out of the field and into a dedicated DH slot is huge. That play tonight (last night), while it looked nice, was made difficult because he misread the ball and then later, where he was in relation to the wall. A more competent RF makes that catch at the wall, period. 



#6 BSLRoseKatz

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 11:29 PM

It'd cost a lot of prospect capital to get Chicago to bite two months ahead of TDL. I'm not sure he's worth it (and he will cost a lot). 

oh yeah I don't think anyone is making a deal in May to be clear lol



#7 dude

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Posted 13 May 2023 - 11:51 PM

I'm all for upgrading a SP, but I don't think you have the pitchers available at this point.  If the CWS wanted to go ahead and move Giolito and get a starter with more control that's ok, but if they are looking for pieces that I'd need for Woodruff or Bieber later, no thanks.  Giolito isn't that exciting.  Maybe better, but not something I'm over-paying for.  Lance Lynn too....maybe something to wait on and see what happens, but I wouldn't pay for him now over the current staff.

 

What team has a starter you care about right now?  STL - no. DC - no. CIN - no. KC? OAK? COL? - no.

 

Bieber would be a play in July if their offense continues to struggle.

 

You probably wait for the Brewers into the offseason.

 

You are allowed to do other things.  There's no priority of effort.



#8 dude

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 12:11 AM

oh yeah I don't think anyone is making a deal in May to be clear lol

 

You don't think the Dodgers would entertain getting Joey Ortiz today for their 2nd rd pick last year?  They are playing Chris Taylor there, but they really need him everywhere, not just trying to fill SS every night.  Rojas has been a mess.  They actually don't have an upper level SS so they need to look for solutions.  They can do something, but I'm not sure they can find a more reasonable fit.  They can talk to the Yankees (IKF, Peraza). The Reds will give them Kevin Newman. Get Dejong and eat the money for the Cards.  Maybe Tim Anderson is a good option but it's money and more much prospect capital thru 2024. Amed Rosario looked like a better option 2 months ago.

 

Orioles can't really leverage Ortiz.  I'm sure the Dodgers would view Mateo even better right now so if the Orioles were committed to Ortiz, great, another way to do it, but Mateo is fine to wait on Holliday if he's going to be a thing.  Don't develop to develop.



#9 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 12:21 AM


SP is a must, but getting Santander out of the field and into a dedicated DH slot is huge. That play tonight (last night), while it looked nice, was made difficult because he misread the ball and then later, where he was in relation to the wall. A more competent RF makes that catch at the wall, period.

Cowser really is ideally the answer in RF. Just be done with Stowers and get on with the Cowser promotion. Now, if they really want to stagger promotions or Cowser struggles they can look to the OF at the deadline. 1 SP is a must. Even if you are fully expecting Means to return and contribute.

#10 mdrunning

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 12:32 AM

Not sure Lucas Giolito would move the needle that much. Dylan Cease would be an interesting target, but he's also under team control through 2025, so not only is there no guarantee he'd be moved, but the price of prying him away would be very steep.

 

You'd likely be looking to something similar to what Washington received last year for Juan Soto. In each case, the return would be two full seasons of control plus three postseason runs. That comes at a cost.



#11 Hooded Viper

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 09:49 AM

Pretty sure Cease is untouchable at this point. The WS still think they can be contenders, false!

The guy I would look to trade for is Eduardo Rodriguez from the Tigers. He has been pitching great and while the Tigers are hanging around they can’t possibly see themselves as anything. Not sure of the package but for the cost and what he could mean to this rotation it would be a big pickup, IMO and finally pitching for the team that drafted him.

#12 dude

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 12:56 PM

The WhiteSox are done this year and they'll make their pitchers available.  Anyone will be available, the problem with dealing with them will be their value versus the other teams value assessment.  Those perspectives are likely a, world apart.  Lynn, Giolito and Clevenger are/will be available, but they aren't selling low and nobody is buying high.

 

Trades are about aligning needs and availability.  You are allowed to do other things before a SP..



#13 Mackus

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 01:01 PM

Pass on all of dude's trades except the Voth dump.

I don't know enough about the LAD catcher to know if that's a trade worth doing, but I'd lean away from prospect swaps and towards MLB purchases with what bullets we choose to spend.

No thanks on Blackmon. Prefer Hays and Santander and our prospect OF to him.

No thanks on selling Urias right now unless its part of improving the roster. Urias and Vavra for Blackmon and Madrigal is going backwards, IMO.

#14 Mackus

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 01:02 PM

Very eager to target a SP. Intrigued by all the names mentioned.

#15 Mackus

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 01:06 PM

Offensive side all the positions that were targets in the off-season remain possibilities. Maybe Mateo has erased SS as an option, but we'll know a lot more come July. One nice hitter would be a great addition. Could target a variety of profiles. Don't have one obvious black hole that needs filling, but several spots that could be addressed. Less of a need than SP, but fix both if you can.

#16 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 02:09 PM

Giolito is a good target that yes will cost you but not a crazy amount.

#17 TwentyThirtyFive

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 02:13 PM

I mean do you just ride Gunnar out at mid July if he still struggling or do you look for a rental 3b and play Urias at 2b. Or again, maybe Westburg or Ortiz has broken through. I def would like at least another OF/DH but if Cowser can hold down a position it makes that less of a need. I would label needs right now as 1. SP 2. RP 3. OF/DH bat. You can never have enough high lev BP arms

#18 Mackus

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 02:21 PM

I mean do you just ride Gunnar out at mid July if he still struggling or do you look for a rental 3b and play Urias at 2b. Or again, maybe Westburg or Ortiz has broen through. I def would like at least another OF/DH but if Cowser can hold down a position it makes that less of a need. I would label needs right now as 1. SP 2. RP 3. OF/DH bat. You can never have enough high lev BP arms

Depends on the degree of struggle. This level or better and I ride. He goes backwards from here and you can look to improve.

Similar thoughts for Mateo as well.

#19 Mike in STL

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 03:40 PM

Never too early to start trading if it means upgrading. I remember maybe a few seasons in the last decade where the Red Sox seemed to be the first ones to headline a trade in June, while everyone else is making deadline deals 6-8 weeks later.

They certainly have to have the prospects to be able to wheel and deal and get immediate major league help. That’s the benefit in dumping guys for the last four years.

I’m not going to play the hypothetical game. But it’s not hard to spot the talented guys on bad teams and throw some prospects only Bob has watched in a package for em.

Not getting my hopes up. Angelos sees a trade for an actual major leaguer as a mid-season increase in payroll. And why increase payroll, at all, especially if they are doing good enough? We also saw what the deadline meant to the smartest guy in the room with a contender last year. Sell sell sell!
@BSLMikeRandall

#20 BobPhelan

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Posted 14 May 2023 - 04:12 PM

You're dead to me for trying to trade Pinto and Ortiz. Who's next, Bencosme???






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