408 replies to this topic

[JoyinMudville]

Look,

 

  byes are a part of sports and, for all the talk about how the days off hurt the Orioles, it also helped them in the sense that pitchers could rest and players could heal a bit from nagging injuries.

 

  The onus is on the players and coaches to figure out how to stay sharp and show up ready to play. They weren't able to figure it out and were outplayed by the Rangers.

[CantonJester]

I doubt it.

 

It's actually good for baseball because it helps them grow their audience in different markets

 

Eh. They're going to take a bath in TV ratings with a team from Texas vs a team from AZ. I'm not saying they should game things so that teams from the east coast reach the fall classic. But as it stands now, really the only incentive is to reach the postseason. Penny-pinching owners like that. 

[BSLChrisStoner]

CBS Sports: 2023 World Series predictions, picks for Rangers vs. Diamondbacks: Which wild-card team will win it all?

https://www.cbssport...ill-win-it-all/

[mdrunning]

It should be noted that the ‘73 Mets, ‘87 Twins, and ‘06 Cardinals all won their respective divisions. 

Right. There were no wildcards in 1973 and 1987 and the Cardinals simply won a weak division in 2006.

[makoman]

It should be noted that the ‘73 Mets, ‘87 Twins, and ‘06 Cardinals all won their respective divisions. 

The Cards had the 13th best record in MLB. Is it impressive that they won an arbitrary grouping of 6 teams? They'd have been 3rd or 4th in every other division.

[CantonJester]

The Cards had the 13th best record in MLB. Is it impressive that they won an arbitrary grouping of 6 teams? They'd have been 3rd or 4th in every other division.

 

So divisions are now arbitrary groupings of teams? 

 

What point are you trying to make here?

 

The fact of the matter is if you win a division, you earn the right to reach the postseason. 

 

Divisions became a matter of reality once the interstate highway system and passenger jet development required airports be built throughout the country. The professional sports leagues headed west, and soon thereafter, each 'league' within the sport had teams from east to west. 

 

Not sure where you get arbitrary grouping out of that. 

[makoman]

So divisions are now arbitrary groupings of teams? 

 

What point are you trying to make here?

 

What was yours, that the Cards were a damn fine team because they won a division? My point is probably that divisions aren't all that meaningful or necessary to with a 162 game season to separate everyone out. I'm not ready to blur AL/NL yet, but I don't see why the 1987 Twins got to be so lucky when they would have been the 5th place team in the East.

 

And in 2006 the NL Central kind of was an arbitrary group of teams. It existed in that form from 1998-2012, with 3 teams from the old East, 2 teams from the old West, and an old AL team. Not exactly much history and tradition there.

[Mackus]

The fact of the matter is if you win a division, you earn the right to reach the postseason.

Just like the right earned by a wild card winner.

[CantonJester]

What was yours, that the Cards were a damn fine team because they won a division? My point is probably that divisions aren't all that meaningful or necessary to with a 162 game season to separate everyone out. I'm not ready to blur AL/NL yet, but I don't see why the 1987 Twins got to be so lucky when they would have been the 5th place team in the East.

 

And in 2006 the NL Central kind of was an arbitrary group of teams. It existed in that form from 1998-2012, with 3 teams from the old East, 2 teams from the old West, and an old AL team. Not exactly much history and tradition there.

 

Why are you singling out the 87 Twins? They won 85 games, but the worst teams in the division only lost 87 games. The East had a 95 loss team and a 101 loss team. 

 

Division titles are how you sell the importance of the regular season. The current structure with three wild cards really undermines that point. 

[CantonJester]

Just like the right earned by a wild card winner.

 

The turnstiles don't turn in June for hopes of a wild card berth the way they do in hopes to win the division since the leagues went to the divisional format 54 years ago. 

[Mackus]

The turnstiles don't turn in June for hopes of a wild card berth the way they do in hopes to win the division since the leagues went to the divisional format 54 years ago.

What does this have to do with the worthiness of these low-win teams that have reached the World Series?

[CantonJester]

What does this have to do with the worthiness of these low-win teams that have reached the World Series?

 

I was pointing out that division titles = playoff berth. The wildcard is the (recent) variable here. 

 

And what's with calling the Rangers a low-win team? They won 92 games, and hell, were in first place for what, 90% of the season? 

[TwentyThirtyFive]

Im totally on board with the 2 League plan, complete balanced schedules, and taking the 6 best teams. There is an accomplishment for say the Os winning the division this year in this division. They should proudly display the 2023 division banner. That said, its not that important. Im not gonna lose sleep over not having divisional winning banners. Have 1 banner for winning the reg season. BTW Id do away with interleague play under this format though it still could stay. Make the WS fresh. Teams and leagues that never played each other in the reg season. To me there was something unique about pre interleague WS. Teams that didnt know each other. Even the diffefence in rules with P hitting. It made the WS feel bigger. All a pipe dream though.

[Mackus]

I was pointing out that division titles = playoff berth. The wildcard is the (recent) variable here.

And what's with calling the Rangers a low-win team? They won 92 games, and hell, were in first place for what, 90% of the season?

Diamondbacks, '06 Cards, '87 Twins etc that we're discussing are relatively low win.

[CantonJester]

Diamondbacks, '06 Cards, '87 Twins etc that we're discussing are relatively low win.

 

Any conversation about low-win WS teams that includes both division winners and wild card teams conflates the issue, IMO. 

 

Division winners can have low win totals for a myriad of reasons: a tight race of rather evenly matched teams (see '87 Twins), or in 2006, the Cardinals were one of only six teams in the entire National League that finished above .500 (16 teams). 

[Mackus]

Any conversation about low-win WS teams that includes both division winners and wild card teams conflates the issue, IMO.

Completely disagree. Apples to apples. The schedule isn't that imbalanced. And same argument for run differential.

[CantonJester]

Completely disagree. Apples to apples. The schedule isn't that imbalanced. And same argument for run differential.

 

Except you're literally arguing the division title means nothing compared to the #3 wild card winner. I'm amazed you can stand in that quicksand. 

[Mackus]

Except you're literally arguing the division title means nothing compared to the #3 wild card winner. I'm amazed you can stand in that quicksand.

No, I'm not saying anything towards that topic at all.

I'm saying any low to mid 80s win team is a similar scenario to what we have this season. An 85-win division winner isn't a different colored horse than an 85-win wild card winner. Both are examples of lower-quality-than-you'd-expect teams that get in, get hot, and get to the World Series.

[Hooded Viper]

The hell was the reason the Orioles gave up on Christian Walker?

[makoman]

The hell was the reason the Orioles gave up on Christian Walker?

Eh, he was in Norfolk in 2014, 2015, and 2016 at age 25, and never managed a 770 OPS as a first baseman. Seemed mediocre. He suddenly got good at age 26 right after he left. You can’t wait forever on guys, sometimes you’ll miss late bloomers. Especially when you have the subpar development that we had at the time.