41 replies to this topic

[PrimeTime]

Defensive line has to be the top priority, IMO. Campbell, Williams and Wolfe will all be free agents and are all on the wrong side of 30.

If Campbell wants to play 1 more year on a cheap deal, I'm fine with him as a rotational guy. If Wolfe can get healthy, maybe he'd come back on a cheap deal as well, tough to say. Williams is definitely past his prime and I think it's time to thank him and move on.

Madubuike should be in line for more snaps next year, which I'm good with. We've been able to find defensive linemen late in the draft and as UDFAs but either way, we need to find an interior Dlineman that can push the pocket and pressure the QB.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Hasn't Campbell been the best defensive player according to PFF? Definitely want him back.

Williams is gone.

Madubuike has been up and down.

Dline certainly needs help.

[Mackus]

Wolfe is not a free agent. $3.5M new money for 2023.

[Biggsy]

Hasn't Campbell been the best defensive player according to PFF? Definitely want him back.

Williams is gone.

Madubuike has been up and down.

Dline certainly needs help.

Campbell has consistently been rated as our best defensive player since we got him. Problem is that he's going to be, what, like 36? It's fair to assume he is best in a rotation, vs playing 90+% of the snaps.


With all of the injuries, it's going to be tough on the front office. We went into training camp with a top 5 secondary. Sporting two of the top press-man corners in the NFL, and great depth in Smith, Averett and Young at CB. And two good young safetys in Clark and Elliott. Clark was exposed a little. Elliott's durability once again popped up. Humphrey had a down year. And Peters will be 28, coming off of a major knee injury. Averett and Young were up and down all season. If your EDC, you almost have to pray they they come back healthy and focused. When healthy you have a very talented and deep secondary.

If you're going to focus on defense, it HAS to be in the front 7. I like Bowser. Queen has been good since moving to the weakside. And Oweh has a ton of potential, with an already decently high floor. If you're going to add to the LBer room, it has to be at the strongside ILB, or possibly another edge rusher.

But if I'm EDC, I'm retooling the defensive line. They need someone that win up front consistently.

Offensively, I'm happy with the skill positions. We have a deep and talented WR room. TE, if Boyle can come back healthy, should be fine. Dobbins and Edwards should be back for the start of camp. Wouldn't mind adding a mid or late round pick on a RB that can offer more upside than a Freeman or a Murray in worst case scenario again. QB is stacked with Jackson and Huntley.

That leaves the offensive line. You could upgrade LG, C or RT. I like Mekari at RT. He's played well when he's been healthy. Ultimately, I would LOVE to land Kenyon Green or Tyler Linderbaum. Instant upgrade IOL in either. Linderbaum is one of the best center prospects to come out in a while. And Green can play any line slot but center. If we lose out, it's very possible we could be in position to get one of them. Linderbaum being the most likely.

Ultimately I agree with Stoner. We need to build from the lines out. If I'm EDC, I'm infusing both lines with as much talent as possible. Then I'm praying my secondary can come back and stay healthy.

[Mike B]

Defensive line has to be the top priority, IMO. Campbell, Williams and Wolfe will all be free agents and are all on the wrong side of 30.

If Campbell wants to play 1 more year on a cheap deal, I'm fine with him as a rotational guy. If Wolfe can get healthy, maybe he'd come back on a cheap deal as well, tough to say. Williams is definitely past his prime and I think it's time to thank him and move on.

Madubuike should be in line for more snaps next year, which I'm good with. We've been able to find defensive linemen late in the draft and as UDFAs but either way, we need to find an interior Dlineman that can push the pocket and pressure the QB.

Dline is the big need.  Maybe a inside pass rusher, where we take the gloves off, and let that guy get after the QB.  

On offense, a young OT or a guard who can pull, would be great.  Not to mention a return to health from Stanley and or James.

 

A pass rusher and a free safety would work too.

[Steve55]

Going to need O line & D line help. Williams is gone. Not sure if Campbell wants another yr. Bozeman is a FA and said to be wanting more than they are willing to go. They will let him shop the market and if a team overpays take the comp. Averett is also a FA. He may go the same route. Their depth with the DB's is shaky. Outside of if Peters & Humphrey come back ok, they can't count on the other injured guys. With Elliott also a FA, Stephens would be his replacement. They still need a true FS.

[hallas]

If he retires he counts about $41M against next year's cap. That's his entire 2022 salary, about half of his 2023 salary, and the remaining prorated bonuses from 22-25.

They may be able to spread about half of that onto the 2023 cap depending on the timing.

Any retirement would obviously be due to injury, so the Ravens wouldn't have good standing to try and recoup any of the bonus he got or the remaining guaranteed salary.

I think that voluntary retirement for any reason causes Stanley to forfeit remaining guaranteed salary and allows the Ravens to claw back a pro rated portion of his signing bonus. But this feels like a a shot to the moon, because the likelihood that he retires is like zero with this much incentive to at least go through the motions.

[hallas]

Dline is the big need.  Maybe a inside pass rusher, where we take the gloves off, and let that guy get after the QB.  

On offense, a young OT or a guard who can pull, would be great.  Not to mention a return to health from Stanley and or James.

 

A pass rusher and a free safety would work too.

 

The list of of DTs that can generate elite pressure and still play against the run is like, Aaron Donald and that's it.  If you include 3-4 DEs then you can add Jonathan Allen and Cameron Hayward.  In either case, that's a super duper short list.  We need help at DLine, but expecting him to be able to rush the QB and defend the run is frankly too heavy an ask for a rookie, even first rounder.  If we get lucky, great, but I wouldn't expect it.

 

side note, for whatever reason PFF has Tyus Bowser categorized under defensive interior.  This is a bit confusing - he's been an edge rusher for as long as I can recall, unless they're having him fill in inside.  I think PFF categorizes DTs and 3-4 DEs as interior defenders..

 

To answer the thread question, we need a safety.  We're basically running 2 strong safeties in Elliott and Clark, and neither is a good enough playmaker in coverage.  Our pressure rate is good, and if we had better pass coverage then I think that we'd see our pressure rate show up as sacks or INTs.

[Biggsy]

The list of of DTs that can generate elite pressure and still play against the run is like, Aaron Donald and that's it. If you include 3-4 DEs then you can add Jonathan Allen and Cameron Hayward. In either case, that's a super duper short list. We need help at DLine, but expecting him to be able to rush the QB and defend the run is frankly too heavy an ask for a rookie, even first rounder. If we get lucky, great, but I wouldn't expect it.

side note, for whatever reason PFF has Tyus Bowser categorized under defensive interior. This is a bit confusing - he's been an edge rusher for as long as I can recall, unless they're having him fill in inside. I think PFF categorizes DTs and 3-4 DEs as interior defenders..

To answer the thread question, we need a safety. We're basically running 2 strong safeties in Elliott and Clark, and neither is a good enough playmaker in coverage. Our pressure rate is good, and if we had better pass coverage then I think that we'd see our pressure rate show up as sacks or INTs.

I agree with your overall point. There are maybe like 10 total interior lineman that you could say are dominant against the run and are top pass rushers inside. Donald, Chris Jones, Jon Allen, Kenny Clark, Grady Jarrett, Vita Vea and DeForest Buckner. That's all I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure their are some I'm missing.

This draft has some talent there.

[Mackus]

I think that voluntary retirement for any reason causes Stanley to forfeit remaining guaranteed salary and allows the Ravens to claw back a pro rated portion of his signing bonus. But this feels like a a shot to the moon, because the likelihood that he retires is like zero with this much incentive to at least go through the motions.

 

It wouldn't be voluntary retirement if he does it because of an injury and he'd obviously be doing it because of injury.  NFL contracts have guarantees and guarantees for injury for exactly this reason.  Maybe they could reach some sort of settlement and not owe every dime, but it would be the overwhelming majority.  Best probable case in terms of a retirement would be if they could convince him to wait until June so they could spread it across 2022 and 2023.  

 

Him retiring would be terrible for the Ravens for multiple reasons, so lets not hope for that outcome.

[hallas]

It wouldn't be voluntary retirement if he does it because of an injury and he'd obviously be doing it because of injury. NFL contracts have guarantees and guarantees for injury for exactly this reason. Maybe they could reach some sort of settlement and not owe every dime, but it would be the overwhelming majority. Best probable case in terms of a retirement would be if they could convince him to wait until June so they could spread it across 2022 and 2023.

Him retiring would be terrible for the Ravens for multiple reasons, so lets not hope for that outcome.

Do you have a source on this? I was under impression that retirement for any reason was considered voluntary since players injured during football activities can be stashed in IR. Players are still required to make a reasonable attempt to rehab back into playing shape while under contract. This article regarding Luck seems to indicate that the precedent is not to claw back bonuses for medically retired players but the team still reserves the right.

https://overthecap.c...cks-retirement/

I am also pretty sure that a voluntary retirement also means forfeiting otherwise guaranteed salary, and I haven't seen any stories about players paid the guaranteed portion of their contracts unless a buyout was signed at retirement.

 

edit to add:  different sports, but Albert Belle didn't retire for the duration of his contract because that's the only way he'd get paid even though it was guaranteed, and Chris Davis signed a buyout so he'd get paid despite retiring.

[Mackus]

Some teams have gone after bonus money in the past, Lions with Calvin Johnson, but that was when the retirement wasn't injury related.  Stanley wouldn't walk away from all the money he's owed.  If he can't play due to injury, he gets paid.  If he retires, the Ravens do have the right to go after a prorated balance of the bonus, but there is no way that Stanley doesn't end up with that money.  So since he'd only be retiring because of a major injury, he and the team could possible reach some sort of settlement where Stanley ends up with 95% of what he's owed if not the whole thing.

 

There is no route to the Ravens not having to pay Stanley everything he's guaranteed, aside from Stanley himself essentially deciding he doesn't deserve it and telling them to keep it.  I don't see that happening, nor do I think it should.   He suffered this injury playing football.  The Ravens have to pay him and they will.  This isn't an Earl Thomas or Ray Rice situation.

[hallas]

Some teams have gone after bonus money in the past, Lions with Calvin Johnson, but that was when the retirement wasn't injury related.  Stanley wouldn't walk away from all the money he's owed.  If he can't play due to injury, he gets paid.  If he retires, the Ravens do have the right to go after a prorated balance of the bonus, but there is no way that Stanley doesn't end up with that money.  So since he'd only be retiring because of a major injury, he and the team could possible reach some sort of settlement where Stanley ends up with 95% of what he's owed if not the whole thing.

 

There is no route to the Ravens not having to pay Stanley everything he's guaranteed, aside from Stanley himself essentially deciding he doesn't deserve it and telling them to keep it.  I don't see that happening, nor do I think it should.   He suffered this injury playing football.  The Ravens have to pay him and they will.  This isn't an Earl Thomas or Ray Rice situation.

Sure - I was mostly picking nits about retirement.  He can't retire and collect unless the Ravens agree to a buyout.  But of course we agree that he's not retiring without a buyout, so it's a moot point.

[JStruds]

Sure - I was mostly picking nits about retirement. He can't retire and collect unless the Ravens agree to a buyout. But of course we agree that he's not retiring without a buyout, so it's a moot point.

If the worst happens, and he can no longer play, is there a way the team - with his agreement - can spread the $$ pain out over a number of years?

[Mackus]

If the worst happens, and he can no longer play, is there a way the team - with his agreement - can spread the $$ pain out over a number of years?

Nope. Best case, depending on timing, is they can take only the 2022 money against the 2022 cap and spread the rest to 2023.

[BSLChrisStoner]

Balt Ravens.com: Mailbag: What's the Biggest Priority?

https://www.baltimor...-priority-x6538

[Slidemaster]

Offensive Line
Defensive Line
Secondary

In that order.

[MirzetSalihovic]

While I agree defensive line, offensive line and secondary are the biggest needs. Linebacker is also a potential need. Too many missed tackles cost the ravens some games. Bynes is only getting older, LJ fort is coming off of ACL surgery and queen has been far too inconsistent. Queen has been mostly a liability with some splash plays thrown in. But Ravens should surely address the secondary before anything, as we finished last in passing yards allowed

[Slidemaster]

While I agree defensive line, offensive line and secondary are the biggest needs. Linebacker is also a potential need. Too many missed tackles cost the ravens some games. Bynes is only getting older, LJ fort is coming off of ACL surgery and queen has been far too inconsistent. Queen has been mostly a liability with some splash plays thrown in. But Ravens should surely address the secondary before anything, as we finished last in passing yards allowed

My only reason to address secondary after the other needs is because they have solutions in house for the cornerback shortages. Safety should surely be one of the top 3 picks they make however.

[bmore_ken]

If he retires he counts about $41M against next year's cap.  That's his entire 2022 salary, about half of his 2023 salary, and the remaining prorated bonuses from 22-25.  

 

They may be able to spread about half of that onto the 2023 cap depending on the timing.

 

Any retirement would obviously be due to injury, so the Ravens wouldn't have good standing to try and recoup any of the bonus he got or the remaining guaranteed salary.

I don't see a retirement happening. That's leaving too much money on the table.